Aspires and NT relationship issues
If I was controlling I wouldn't be here trying to understand. If you read my posts carefully you would notice that I constantly try to change my expectations and behaviour to ensure my friend feels understood. At the risk of causing offence the rules put down for friendship by yourselves sound far more controlling than anything I have discussed.
We don't make 'rules for friendship'.
Well, I certainly don't.
Think you misunderstood there.
The people I spoke about intuitively 'get it'.
I haven't done any negotiating.
They're genuinely caring, understanding people.
_________________
It's like I'm sleepwalking
Maybe you have hit your limit of how much you are willing to accommodate the other person and so has he. I think now you will just have to accept him for who he is or go your separate ways.
I mean you hang out, chill, go places, etc together. I don't think there is much more after that. Maybe besides the deep meaningful conversations that some close friends have, I think that's pretty much what most close friends do.(well, that's what I seen from others that were close friends.)
_________________
Autism is a disorder not a personality trait!
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and Wisdom to know the difference."
Aquainebay I haven't reached a limit. This was never a "problem" I was just using it as an example of how differences and difficulties arise. I wanted to provoke a discussion so we could begin to see each other's point of views.
My friend and I are fine . . .. I was confused and a little upset about a lack of contact, but all resolved now . . .. the main issue was to try and show a friendship from an NT perspective.
Unfortunately many people seem to feel I was being critical, or controlling or needy or demanding .. .. .. . . I think I am actually very accepting and adaptable but it is a continual learning process.
Why be that way? Wouldn't you want an NT friend to make an effort to understand you, and try to build a meaningful relationship? How can we know how difficult it is for her to understand the way we think? If we think hard enough, can we understand the way she thinks?
It's not like she's trying to stereotype us, she just has a friend who's Aspie and she's trying to maintain that relationship because she likes him as a friend. I honestly wish more NT people like that were posting here, we could learn from them.
The NT friends I have are the ones who realise I need to be left alone to recover/decompress/retain my sanity.
They don't try to force themselves into my awareness or keep making demands for attention.
They realise that contact has to be on a practical level, not an emotional one, otherwise I have no idea how to respond.
They realise how much socialising wears me out and will do thoughtful things like sitting beside me instead of across from me so I don't need to make constant eye contact.
They will text and ask how many mms of rain I had instead of how I am.
That is how they understand me.
What they don't do is tell me how not contacting them makes them feel unwanted and hurt, because that would make me feel like I have failed, and there's a high probability I will fail again and that would tend to make me withdraw from the friendship so as not to inflict harm.
Honestly, I would rather have no friends than know I constantly hurt them.
I think the friends I have are secure enough in themselves that they are not hurt by such things.
They tend to be confident and independent people, who don't rely on others to build up their self worth.
I can be relaxed around them because there's no judgement or undercurrent of resentment or pressure to be something I'm not.
In return I give them an extremely deep and loyal friendship.
One has even broken contact with other friends because she's realised how superficial some of those other 'friendships' are.
Really, all I've learnt from this thread is how NTs are hurt by us because we don't constantly bolster their egos, and I'm not the bolstering ego kind.
I could text someone every day and say, "How are you? I missed you so much!" but that would be a lie because I probably haven't missed them at all, because how can you miss someone who is still there and is a part of you, like your elbow is a part of you?
So would you rather be lied to or have a relationship based on truth?
And texting is the worst kind of communication because there's usually no other markers to go by but a few cryptic words, so I will stress myself out for hours wondering how to respond appropriately.
That's rather debilitating for me, so it goes both ways.
I really hope this is not taken the wrong way, as it is not meant in any negative way whatsoever. But pretty much everything said in this quote is so far off the mark of what we think, feel, and why we see things the way we do, and why we expect certain things from friendships. It has nothing at all to do with ego or anything else even remotely like that. I would only suggest something very simple. Given that Aspies have such a hard time understanding the NT viewpoint and world, and this really should not be taken as a criticism, it is just plainly part of the diagnosis, would you be willing to consider that your interpretation of how we are and how you are seeing us is likely incorrect? This is not even asking any aspie to adapt, or fully understand, or to do anything really, other than to recognize that you don't really get it. We don't get you either, but we recognize that we don't get you, that is why we are here.
The piece you are responding to seems to me like such a small part of everything involved in building positive relationships, however.
Although I do disagree with Raleighs characterization as the need being related to ego.
Regardless, I don't think we always need to know the "why" of anyone else's needs. I learned long ago to stop attributing a "why" because unless you are in someone else's head you will probably be wrong. That is especially true when my Aspie son tries to come up with a why (although he seems to have a greater need to come up with one than I do). If you care about someone, you simply accept what "is." "That is just the way John Doe is about X." There are so many things I simply accept about my friends and family. I don't judge. I don't attribute. I simply accept. Because for whatever reason I will always care about that person.
I answered you in the other thread, btw, Imhere.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
I do feel despondent now tho . . .. .. . .it seems so difficult for us to understand each other. I appreciate it must be how you guys feel all the time but let's not forget we are all individuals. So mine and my friends way of interacting is what works for us. It will be different for everyone . . . .
Why be that way? Wouldn't you want an NT friend to make an effort to understand you, and try to build a meaningful relationship? How can we know how difficult it is for her to understand the way we think? If we think hard enough, can we understand the way she thinks?
It's not like she's trying to stereotype us, she just has a friend who's Aspie and she's trying to maintain that relationship because she likes him as a friend. I honestly wish more NT people like that were posting here, we could learn from them.
The NT friends I have are the ones who realise I need to be left alone to recover/decompress/retain my sanity.
They don't try to force themselves into my awareness or keep making demands for attention.
They realise that contact has to be on a practical level, not an emotional one, otherwise I have no idea how to respond.
They realise how much socialising wears me out and will do thoughtful things like sitting beside me instead of across from me so I don't need to make constant eye contact.
They will text and ask how many mms of rain I had instead of how I am.
That is how they understand me.
What they don't do is tell me how not contacting them makes them feel unwanted and hurt, because that would make me feel like I have failed, and there's a high probability I will fail again and that would tend to make me withdraw from the friendship so as not to inflict harm.
Honestly, I would rather have no friends than know I constantly hurt them.
I think the friends I have are secure enough in themselves that they are not hurt by such things.
They tend to be confident and independent people, who don't rely on others to build up their self worth.
I can be relaxed around them because there's no judgement or undercurrent of resentment or pressure to be something I'm not.
In return I give them an extremely deep and loyal friendship.
One has even broken contact with other friends because she's realised how superficial some of those other 'friendships' are.
Really, all I've learnt from this thread is how NTs are hurt by us because we don't constantly bolster their egos, and I'm not the bolstering ego kind.
I could text someone every day and say, "How are you? I missed you so much!" but that would be a lie because I probably haven't missed them at all, because how can you miss someone who is still there and is a part of you, like your elbow is a part of you?
So would you rather be lied to or have a relationship based on truth?
And texting is the worst kind of communication because there's usually no other markers to go by but a few cryptic words, so I will stress myself out for hours wondering how to respond appropriately.
That's rather debilitating for me, so it goes both ways.
I really hope this is not taken the wrong way, as it is not meant in any negative way whatsoever. But pretty much everything said in this quote is so far off the mark of what we think, feel, and why we see things the way we do, and why we expect certain things from friendships. It has nothing at all to do with ego or anything else even remotely like that. I would only suggest something very simple. Given that Aspies have such a hard time understanding the NT viewpoint and world, and this really should not be taken as a criticism, it is just plainly part of the diagnosis, would you be willing to consider that your interpretation of how we are and how you are seeing us is likely incorrect? This is not even asking any aspie to adapt, or fully understand, or to do anything really, other than to recognize that you don't really get it. We don't get you either, but we recognize that we don't get you, that is why we are here.
The piece you are responding to seems to me like such a small part of everything involved in building positive relationships, however.
Although I do disagree with Raleighs characterization as the need being related to ego.
Regardless, I don't think we always need to know the "why" of anyone else's needs. I learned long ago to stop attributing a "why" because unless you are in someone else's head you will probably be wrong. That is especially true when my Aspie son tries to come up with a why (although he seems to have a greater need to come up with one than I do). If you care about someone, you simply accept what "is." "That is just the way John Doe is about X." There are so many things I simply accept about my friends and family. I don't judge. I don't attribute. I simply accept. Because for whatever reason I will always care about that person.
I answered you in the other thread, btw, Imhere.
For me, at least, maybe it's not so much about knowing "why", exactly (though that would be nice). It is more about knowing the "what"....what exactly does he think (about me)? Does he care or not? Does he consider me a friend or not, and if so, what exactly is his definition of a friend so I know what he wants or needs? (Once he did tell me he would always be my friend...but at this point I question what that meant in his definition.) Now see, I have asked him many times about these things and many other things. He does not answer, or when in person, demonstrates that he perhaps cannot answer. Any question that is not logic or science or math based is pushed under the rug. I honestly think he is very "young" emotionally, and very inexperienced emotionally. There is a part of me that really feels that he cares deeply. But the outward behavior is mostly the exact opposite, at least lately...it didn't used to be that way. But as human nature would have it (perhaps I should say NT human behavior here?), we tend to hold on for dear life to those moments that, to us at least, meant something, that seem like the other person truly cared, like there was a connection. It makes no sense. But it is feelings, not logic. So as far as accepting what "is"...that is my problem...I don't know what actually "is" with him. One minute we are having a conversation that is so deep and personal it would be like a conversation between lovers, the next minute (and most minutes) he completely ignores me or says mean things to push me away. So I have no idea what "is" is.
Hey, everything is fine! We didn't truly succeed but you did learn something about autism and we learned some things about NTs! Maybe this might be the first step in NTs and Autistic people understanding each other...just have to give it time.
_________________
Autism is a disorder not a personality trait!
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
and Wisdom to know the difference."
Why be that way? Wouldn't you want an NT friend to make an effort to understand you, and try to build a meaningful relationship? How can we know how difficult it is for her to understand the way we think? If we think hard enough, can we understand the way she thinks?
It's not like she's trying to stereotype us, she just has a friend who's Aspie and she's trying to maintain that relationship because she likes him as a friend. I honestly wish more NT people like that were posting here, we could learn from them.
The NT friends I have are the ones who realise I need to be left alone to recover/decompress/retain my sanity.
They don't try to force themselves into my awareness or keep making demands for attention.
They realise that contact has to be on a practical level, not an emotional one, otherwise I have no idea how to respond.
They realise how much socialising wears me out and will do thoughtful things like sitting beside me instead of across from me so I don't need to make constant eye contact.
They will text and ask how many mms of rain I had instead of how I am.
That is how they understand me.
What they don't do is tell me how not contacting them makes them feel unwanted and hurt, because that would make me feel like I have failed, and there's a high probability I will fail again and that would tend to make me withdraw from the friendship so as not to inflict harm.
Honestly, I would rather have no friends than know I constantly hurt them.
I think the friends I have are secure enough in themselves that they are not hurt by such things.
They tend to be confident and independent people, who don't rely on others to build up their self worth.
I can be relaxed around them because there's no judgement or undercurrent of resentment or pressure to be something I'm not.
In return I give them an extremely deep and loyal friendship.
One has even broken contact with other friends because she's realised how superficial some of those other 'friendships' are.
Really, all I've learnt from this thread is how NTs are hurt by us because we don't constantly bolster their egos, and I'm not the bolstering ego kind.
I could text someone every day and say, "How are you? I missed you so much!" but that would be a lie because I probably haven't missed them at all, because how can you miss someone who is still there and is a part of you, like your elbow is a part of you?
So would you rather be lied to or have a relationship based on truth?
And texting is the worst kind of communication because there's usually no other markers to go by but a few cryptic words, so I will stress myself out for hours wondering how to respond appropriately.
That's rather debilitating for me, so it goes both ways.
I really hope this is not taken the wrong way, as it is not meant in any negative way whatsoever. But pretty much everything said in this quote is so far off the mark of what we think, feel, and why we see things the way we do, and why we expect certain things from friendships. It has nothing at all to do with ego or anything else even remotely like that. I would only suggest something very simple. Given that Aspies have such a hard time understanding the NT viewpoint and world, and this really should not be taken as a criticism, it is just plainly part of the diagnosis, would you be willing to consider that your interpretation of how we are and how you are seeing us is likely incorrect? This is not even asking any aspie to adapt, or fully understand, or to do anything really, other than to recognize that you don't really get it. We don't get you either, but we recognize that we don't get you, that is why we are here.
This is why we have a disability.
Because we don't get it.
If we could get it we wouldn't have a disability.
I don't think I could make it any plainer than that.
If I view you as clingy or needy, that is how you appear to me, from my perspective, even though that is normal for you.
the thought that anyone needs to have someone constantly contacting them so as to be considered a friend is so foreign to me I can only conclude 'ego'.
Because that is how it appears to me, from my perspective.
There are no instructions to be found for building and maintaining relationships the way normal people would wish.
Sorry, I have no code for that.
I could try and try but I would still fall short, and half kill myself in the process.
Best thing is to stick to those people who understand us.
_________________
It's like I'm sleepwalking
I guess that NT/Aspie communications are extremely challenging! Perhaps Raleigh's characterizations of why NTs need reinforcement in a relationship do not reflect most NTs, his post about how his friends work with him as an Aspie and his explanation of how that friendship works is probably one of the best posts I'm seen here on Wrong Planet. I wish I had friends like that.
This might blow up. Sorry if it does. But if you read carefully, it categorizes the effects of common characteristics of Aspies and how that affects NTs. If you look at it objectively, you will see all the things the NTs here have said. Really, we are trying so very hard to understand. Everyone has needs though. True, sometimes you have to just walk away. We'd rather not if there is anything that can help, and we're willing to try to find it.
https://theneurotypical.com/effects-on-differing-nd-levels.html
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