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Aspie1
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15 Aug 2007, 12:04 pm

MikeH106 wrote:
Crazy_Ben wrote:
Where the hell do you think Hitler got his ideas from, they were from books written by shoddy American thinkers.


I thought Hitler got his ideas from Nietzsche.


It's true; he did. Hitler read about Nietzsche's philosophy, but then interpreted it in a way that fit the Nazi ideology, pretty much bastardizing it. So even though he really did get his ideas from Nietzsche, the Nazi version has little in common with what Nietzsche originally came up with.



MikeH106
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15 Aug 2007, 12:09 pm

I have a copy of the Genealogy of Morals on by bookshelf. The three of us should get together in the chat room one day and discuss Nietzsche.


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Jainaday
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15 Aug 2007, 12:09 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
MikeH106 wrote:
Crazy_Ben wrote:
Where the hell do you think Hitler got his ideas from, they were from books written by shoddy American thinkers.


I thought Hitler got his ideas from Nietzsche.


It's true; he did. Hitler read about Nietzsche's philosophy, but then interpreted it in a way that fit the Nazi ideology, pretty much bastardizing it. So even though he really did get his ideas from Nietzsche, the Nazi version has little in common with what Nietzsche originally came up with.


My understanding was that Nietzsche's sister, who Nietzsche was none too fond of, was fond of feeding the Nazi party his work out of context, so that it supported their cause.


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Elemental
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15 Aug 2007, 2:16 pm

Jainaday wrote:
Now that that's out of the way. . .

All of you out there who are so stuck in this "social darwinism, women are only after power and looks and if my date isn't gorgeous I've low standards" rut please consider the following:

Some of us, even if it is far less than 1% of the female population, want something different.

If you did too, maybe you'd have a shot at finding us.


Complete agreement.

I have never had a date, this is almost completely down to me, and I'm trying to rectify it instead of blaming genes or some inherent defect in women.



LePetitPrince
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15 Aug 2007, 3:55 pm

Jainaday wrote:
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And another question for you, petit; what defines too much confidence, other than the tone of one's lectures?

I think I give "lectures" based off of things I have experienced; therefore, my confidence in them, as my point of view, is justified. Of course I could always be wrong, but until I experience something that leads me to that conclusion, there's not much reason to revise. . . . So am I just being too condecending in my choice of language, or are you defining me as "too confident" by some other criteria?


It's only your lecturer 's tone that sounds socially confident , I know nothing else about you so I can judge .


Yes, but why do you choose to call me too confident?

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Are you really autistic or aspie btw ?


Hell if I know.

There are a couple of diagnosed people in my family; when my little brother was getting his diagnosis, I was there, and I was like, "you aren't saying I'm autistic, and I have. . . (basically every symptom, except I shower and stopped physically fighting my classmates when I was nine) also."

Of course, the shrink took this to mean I had an emotional resistance to the idea of autism in the family; he didn't even throw out the possibility that I was Aspie too.

If I am, it's pretty well covered by the fact that I spent several years fascinated by social analysis. I read everything Judith Martin (Miss Manners) had written at the time, relationship books (many of which made little sense to me, as they usually don't describe how I think, feel, and respond), older behavior guides. . . spent a lot of time watching people and trying to figure things out. . . My attempts to learn the detailed nonverbal stuff were less easy; I started studying fashion from a historical/formal standpoint- didn't know where else to start- and it takes a lot to get from there to "is this the right thing to wear to this event" in real life. I then studied dance and Bartenief movement analysis, which includes (my favorite part) a freakishly detailed analysis of body language and it's phychological implications.

So now, it's great, I even have NT friends who ask me for help with social analysis regularly. . . the only catch is, I often hate interacting with people, especially new people, with whom I have to use all that stuff. It's pretty funny. I choose to have a social life anyway because it helps with the depression (no new people eventually means few or no close friends either), but social interaction is. . . yeah. A little to much means I want to hide under a rock, rock back and forth, and cry.

One of the reasons I love WP- and online in general- is because I can hear and be heard without dealing with all the crap. . . and I can always just turn my computer off.


So you tell me. . . am I autistic or aspie?


You sound autistic who coped well .

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except I shower


This is silly , no-showering is not a symptom .



username88
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15 Aug 2007, 4:04 pm

Not showering or caring about anything is something that can happen as a result of depression though. Ive had times where I was so depressed I woke up (well into the afternoon), ate something, then stayed in my room all day. I would only leave to go to the bathroom or something but thats it. I thought to myself, if I have no one and pretty much nothing to live for then what difference did it make? Couldnt deal with anyone downstairs or in the outside world, and they couldnt deal with me. But Ive been getting a lot better these days, I care if Im clean, Im not as afraid to leave the house, I can drive with my windows down and not really care if people see me. Hopefully one day I can gain full self confidence :)



juliekitty
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15 Aug 2007, 4:12 pm

Elemental wrote:
I have never had a date, this is almost completely down to me, and I'm trying to rectify it instead of blaming genes or some inherent defect in women.


That's bravely conceded and very refreshing.



NeantHumain
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15 Aug 2007, 6:39 pm

MikeH106 wrote:
I have a copy of the Genealogy of Morals on by bookshelf. The three of us should get together in the chat room one day and discuss Nietzsche.

Nietzsche fans, excellent! I might swing by the chat room sometime this weekend. I have read Beyond Good and Evil and am in the process of reading Thus Spoke Zarathustra.His ideas are interesting although sometimes he rings of the lonely, cranky old man variety.



MikeH106
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15 Aug 2007, 9:31 pm

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Nietzsche fans, excellent! I might swing by the chat room sometime this weekend. I have read Beyond Good and Evil and am in the process of reading Thus Spoke Zarathustra.His ideas are interesting although sometimes he rings of the lonely, cranky old man variety.


He constantly ridicules people he considers inferior, but I have yet to read any advice he gives them.

By the way, just because we acknowledge the unfairness of sexual selection doesn't mean we just give up and sit at home. It's a valuable source of knowledge that alerts us to the suffering of others and allows us to do something about it.


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techstepgenr8tion
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15 Aug 2007, 9:48 pm

MikeH106 wrote:
By the way, just because we acknowledge the unfairness of sexual selection doesn't mean we just give up and sit at home. It's a valuable source of knowledge that alerts us to the suffering of others and allows us to do something about it.


This is true. Then again many times it still will overrule whatever knowledge or effort to make right that you put into things but on the brighter side knowing that you gave it your best shot takes away a lot of the depressive sting as well as the regrets and "what if"s.



MikeH106
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16 Aug 2007, 12:55 pm

From Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals, end of the third essay:

"The meaninglessness of suffering ... was the curse that lay over mankind so far--and the ascetic ideal offered man meaning!"

"Man was saved thereby, he possessed a meaning, he was henceforth no longer like a leaf in the wind, a plaything of nonsense ... the will itself was saved."

"We can no longer conceal from ourselves what is expressed by all that willing which has taken its direction from the ascetic ideal: this ... will to nothingness, an aversion to life ..."

Nietzsche stops here. His conclusion that ascetic priests ultimately will nothingness seems pessimistic, but may have reflected the ignorance of his time.


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Like a drop of blood in a tank of flesh-eating piranhas, a new idea never fails to arouse the wrath of herd prejudice.


Jainaday
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16 Aug 2007, 1:41 pm

juliekitty wrote:
Elemental wrote:
I have never had a date, this is almost completely down to me, and I'm trying to rectify it instead of blaming genes or some inherent defect in women.


That's bravely conceded and very refreshing.


Amen.

It doesn't even have to be "almost completely down to" you for this approach to be laudable.


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Jainaday
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16 Aug 2007, 1:45 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
Nietzsche fans, excellent!


I wouldn't go that far, not in reference to myself. There is a certain seductive beauty in the language- however, the extreme flexibility of reasonable interpretations leaves me leery of other "Nietzsche fans," despite that there are some interpretations of the work I find quite intriguing.

Plus, I haven't even read any of his works through, which puts me in a less than ideal position for holding forth. .. :wink:


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Jainaday
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16 Aug 2007, 1:48 pm

MikeH106 wrote:
I'm not sure whether you're autistic, but you definitely sound very intelligent. :) I see that you're a student. I'm curious, what's your major? Mine is mathematics.


Physics, but only as of very recently. I'm just getting into calculus now.

Love it, though.

also, thanks for the props. :)


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Jainaday
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16 Aug 2007, 2:01 pm

MikeH106 wrote:
By the way, just because we acknowledge the unfairness of sexual selection doesn't mean we just give up and sit at home. It's a valuable source of knowledge that alerts us to the suffering of others and allows us to do something about it.


Help me out, I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Acknowleging the unfairness of sexual selection is a surce of knowlege?

If this is what you're saying-
I'll give you that discussing unfairness of sexual selection could lead to a greater awareness of a specific sort of suffering. However, there are two details that (I think) stop it from functioning as you seem to have described;

a) most of the people who bring it up here seem concerned solely with how it effects them, not others; the only way this ends up well is if a communal gripe session happens to be what everybody really needed.

b) I'm not sure that those unfairly favored end up with all that much less dating angst. After all, imagine never knowing if you were really being chosen for yourself rather than for a few narrow characteristics. . . yes, it does have a lot of obvious advantages, but I don't think it's totally a one way street. I'm not all that pretty, and from the experiences I've had with guys who are only interested in my appearance and my body, I'd far rather be alone.

If that was not what you were saying, please clarify.


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calandale
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16 Aug 2007, 2:21 pm

Jainaday wrote:
I'm just getting into calculus now.



Uhg. I've forgotten calculus more times
than I care to think about. I love the underlying
theory, but actually doing the computations makes
me less than happy.