How many of you are adults and have never had a girlfriend?

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Mister, you said a mouthful!

And I'm afraid I'm going to have to vote for the naval officer look.

Are you talking about me? Well, I am a lesbian so not looking for a man anyways. I wish I could change the way I am and feel more connected to people, but I just don't. And when you don't feel connected to folks of course you aren't gonna wanna get naked with them and touch all over them or vice versa.

Interesting thing to bring up. I think something happens though to guys who've been repeatedly stabbed by life though. One other poster mentioned having a lot of girls interested and they'd start the conversation and like clockwork they'd disappear - I had the same experience, even with some very popular and attractive girls, and its not like it happened once or twice but incessantly, particularly any time I changed social situations and people didn't know me yet. The funny thing was I would show interest, I would even initiate often enough - who I was just didn't work for people. Take that to my mid 20's after I'd had my huge internal NT reformation and forced myself to stomp out as much of my weirdness as I could as well as not let anyone get the better of me, I started at a restaurant when I was 20 and worked there though college - had a new girl interested every month, every time I'd try to approach them in conversation in what I thought was a cool/dignified manner - didn't work, they hated it and gave me a scorned reaction. It would be either that, or like another member said I looked very youthful and wholesome - they wanted a church boy not a raver - so they created my identity before they'd talk to me and when I tried to redirect them to the real me it didn't compute.

After all of that I'm really trying to get myself back to being excited about women but its difficult. Kind of like war adrenaline does something to veterans, there's only so much jarring your brain chemistry can take from experience before certain things start to wear out and your ability to go back starts shutting down. I think at this point in my life its just what you said - I'm too independent, want someone in my life but apparently I need someone who's equally independent and INTJ to myself, who would love to have a mutual growth, trust, and love relationship but have it based on how well we fit each other and let what we have on that be why we need, want, or gravitate toward each other rather than having the basis right in the first ten seconds necessarily be an erection. While I do have standards on looks and its true that women who I'm attracted to do wonderful things for me internally - if you've been stabbed enough to where your circuitry of acting on that has been burned out - you're in a bind for showing it (at least sufficiently to their liking) and a unique one at that where next to no one will have any advice that can help.

Even on OkCupid right now though I'm seeing that I get no responses and part of it is - I'm being clever, conversational, but at the same time my writing might seem more platonic and hormone-dry? Is it supposed to be more 'Hey! I think your H-A-W-T!' than 'Hey! Neat profile, I can relate to x, y, and z'? I'd love to fix it but between life and work stress already it feels like my nervous system's waving a white flag.

Not rude at all

There are actually a lot of women (dunno how it is for trans people lookking for guys though, I'm guessing guys would be less likely to ?) who are open to it. Online anyway. For example I've always mentioned it in my okcupid profile, but I've had plenty of girls on there message me before. IRL I would never approach a woman though as I'd assume she wouldn't be ok with it. Obviously on the internet it's easier to find certai kinds of people, whereas most women I meet IRL would likely not want someone in my position (which is understandable, I'm definitely not resentful about that or anything lol)

This is the main reason I wish pansexuality was more heard of. Most bi people (although more liekly to be ok with a trans bf/gf probably) aren't going to want a pre-op transguy. Whereas if you know a girl's pansexual then you know you at least stand the same kinda chance that a straight guy would have around a straight woman for example

If that makes sense. Dunno if I explained myself well or no

^That's all related to dating/relationships though. When it comes to just random people I haven't had any major abuse before IRL, just stupid comments. Online I do get a lot of s**t, but usually from a minority of people. i think the majority of people are ok with trans people as long as they're not directly affected by it (ie if their son/daughter tells them they're trans)

I think that was a great way to explain the situation to people who live in a heteronormative mindset.

This is something I always said whenever people asked about how to get success on a dating site or what to include in a message

A lot of guys just send generic messages to any girls who are within their age range and in their area and then wonder why they don't get replies

I would only try anything with a girl if I actually liked HER, rather than trying to just get a girl, regardless of who it is

Thanks. I mean obviously just knowing that a girl is pansexual or has liked a transguy before doesn't make me assume she will automatically like me It just puts me in the position that most guys are in when they're around a straight girl

It did make perfect sense. Thank you for the thoughtful response. I have only heard of pansexuality here on WP, so it must be fairly unheard of out in the world. I hadn't understood the purpose of having the label before. It has probably been said in threads here, but I don't read a lot of the sex-based threads. I also hadn't given much thought to why a label like "pansexual" would be necessary, but now that you say it, it seems quite obvious. I'm sure it would be very helpful if people were familiar with this term. Maybe they will become more aware of it over time.

And I'm very glad to hear you don't get much abuse for it. I wonder if a transgendered woman (a person born male who identifies as female, I mean to say) would be likely to get more abuse for it.

I would think it is a lot harder for them as it's harder for them to pass as female (usually) but also more obvious that they ARE dressing female. I mean if you saw a guy walking down the street in jeans and a hoodie, then realised they looked female, they'd just think it was a boyish girl/lesbian etc, but obviously it's unusual for a male to wear women's clothes in public so thhey'd stand out

I also think they are more likely to get abuse because it can look ridiculous sometimes. And I don't mean that in an offensive way towards trans women, it's just how it is - if they don't do it properly then someone with male features is running a pretty big risk of just looking like a drag queen or something.

And I have only heard of pansexuality online as well. I guess it is rare really so not surprising that it's quite unheard of

Another pretty big problem is it's more common for men to find a male-to-female transsexual threatening, which obviously sometimes leads to violence. Then again that happens with transguys too (Boys Don't Cry is a good film based on a transguy who was raped and murdered in the 90s when his friends found out, if you've not seen it). I am guessing it's more of a threat for MTFs though

Yes, that is pretty much something that I would say. I've had a couple of interesting starts on okcupid that suddenly fell flat. The thing is that I don't want to come off like one of those guys who is only looking for a quick hook-up, but I think that I may end up looking uninterested instead.

Ah, that's true. I have heard of the "horror story" of a man making out with a woman to find out that the woman's transgendered (though I've never heard of this actually occurring--surely it's not so common). Of course, I would have to say that it's wrong for someone to do this when they know that the other party would likely be very upset about it, but that they find it so horrifying says a lot. I suspect they'd find transgendered women threatening because they believe that the woman is still really a man and they're afraid of the possibility of being with one unwittingly .

I have seen that movie. It's very shocking the things people are capable of.

Lol, beyond that - if that's you being the real you, how would you figure that being someone else would land a result you want? I guess its where we just have to stick to our guns and keep at it until it works, otherwise we end up with something half baked.

Yeah. I guess that it is possible to pretend to be something that you're not, for a little while, but ultimately the real you will always come out.

Or hate what you've received by your efforts even before all of that.

Never had a girlfriend, never even attracted a girl. I do think I only have myself to blame as hygiene was horrible. I will not elaborate any further to embarrassing. I have been using dating sites for a little over 12 months and have not had any success which worries me.