How to detect Narcissists (common partner for AS/Asperger's)

Page 8 of 8 [ 121 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

BenderRodriguez
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,343

02 Jul 2020, 11:47 am

TuskenR wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Chain wrote:
People with AS can be "narcissists".
People with AS often have a very low self-esteem; if so they can't be narcissists.
What about those people whose every conversation seems to be about their problems, their misery, their loneliness, their lack of friends, their shortcomings, and their experiences with being rejected by family and society?  If everything in their own little worlds is all about them, then how could they not have a Narcissistic Personality Disorder?  Narcissists don't necessarily have to be optimistic, just obsessed with themselves.


I think you just described "Covert" or "Vulnerable narcissists" :?:


Bingo, you've had some experience with them, haven't you?


_________________
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley


BenderRodriguez
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,343

02 Jul 2020, 12:05 pm

Vanity can be a manifestation, but it's not necessary and not even included on its own in the diagnostic criteria; there's been a long way since Narcissus to NPD. The term is thrown around very loosely these days and most people have little understanding of the condition.

5 out of 9 or these traits are required for a diagnosis:

- A grandiose logic of self-importance
- A fixation with fantasies of infinite success, control, brilliance, beauty, or idyllic love
- A credence that he or she is extraordinary and exceptional and can only be understood by, or should connect with, other extraordinary or important people or institutions
- A desire for unwarranted admiration
- A sense of entitlement
- Interpersonally oppressive behaviour
- No form of empathy
- Resentment of others or a conviction that others are resentful of him or her
- A display of egotistical and conceited behaviours or attitudes

https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/narcissistic-personality-disorder-dsm--5-301.81-(f60.81)

And DSM IV:

https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/courses/materials/Narc.Pers.DSM.pdf

Those who have it are also very hard to diagnose, as they never believe there's anything wrong with them, no matter what they do, it's always somebody else's fault.

Edit: NOT necessary


_________________
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley


Last edited by BenderRodriguez on 02 Jul 2020, 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

that1weirdgrrrl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,090
Location: Between my dreams and your fantasies

02 Jul 2020, 4:20 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
Vanity can be a manifestation, but it's necessary and not even included on its own in the diagnostic criteria; there's been a long way since Narcissus to NPD. The term is thrown around very loosely these days and most people have little understanding of the condition.

5 out of 9 or these traits are required for a diagnosis:

- A grandiose logic of self-importance
- A fixation with fantasies of infinite success, control, brilliance, beauty, or idyllic love
- A credence that he or she is extraordinary and exceptional and can only be understood by, or should connect with, other extraordinary or important people or institutions
- A desire for unwarranted admiration
- A sense of entitlement
- Interpersonally oppressive behaviour
- No form of empathy
- Resentment of others or a conviction that others are resentful of him or her
- A display of egotistical and conceited behaviours or attitudes

https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/narcissistic-personality-disorder-dsm--5-301.81-(f60.81)

And DSM IV:

https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/courses/materials/Narc.Pers.DSM.pdf

Those who have it are also very hard to diagnose, as they never believe there's anything wrong with them, no matter what they do, it's always somebody else's fault.


This. All of this.


_________________
...what do the public, the great unobservant public, who could hardly tell a weaver by his tooth or a compositor by his left thumb, care about the finer shades of analysis and deduction!


TuskenR
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 5 May 2020
Posts: 231

03 Jul 2020, 1:03 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
TuskenR wrote:
Fnord wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Chain wrote:
People with AS can be "narcissists".
People with AS often have a very low self-esteem; if so they can't be narcissists.
What about those people whose every conversation seems to be about their problems, their misery, their loneliness, their lack of friends, their shortcomings, and their experiences with being rejected by family and society?  If everything in their own little worlds is all about them, then how could they not have a Narcissistic Personality Disorder?  Narcissists don't necessarily have to be optimistic, just obsessed with themselves.


I think you just described "Covert" or "Vulnerable narcissists" :?:


Bingo, you've had some experience with them, haven't you?


Sadly yes , I also think I'm possibly one too.


_________________
So unscrew my head
And rinse it out
Polish my thoughts
Turn into doubts


BenderRodriguez
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,343

03 Jul 2020, 1:46 pm

^
Suspecting you're one is basically proof you're not :wink:


_________________
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley


Amity
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,714
Location: Meandering

03 Jul 2020, 2:59 pm

Image
This sums up the experience with my ex husband.


_________________
http://www.neurovoice.org
An ASD inclusive peer-orientated space for social interaction and support, where the Autism Spectrum is the norm, all are welcome.


BenderRodriguez
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Feb 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,343

03 Jul 2020, 3:27 pm

If only they would be so self-aware and honest, eh?


_________________
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley


Chain
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 157
Location: Portland, Oregon

03 Jul 2020, 4:07 pm

Amity wrote:
Image
This sums up the experience with my ex husband.


Sums up the experience with my ex wife too... or as my oldest put it "why didn't you ever tell us mommy was crazy?"

She actually called my trans boy son a "gender traitor" and took the door off of his room. The highest suicide rate is amongst trans teens! He ended up in the psych ward for teens :(

I still boil about that :evil:


_________________
I may use terms that are part of my theory of "Functional Cognitive Typology". Diagnosis is always a mixed bag but generally they map to the cognitive type when in dysfunction:
C = Cultural (NT), EC = Extra-Cultural (ASD)
U = understanding ~ ADD/ADHD
A = acceptance ~ baseline, normal
T = trust ~ possible schizotypal disorder
R = respect ~ NPD
C = cerebral (adrenaline averse), S = somatic (adrenaline seeking)

I am ECUC/S (cusp cerebral/somatic)


dorkseid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,354
Location: Tarkon Galtos

09 Jul 2020, 1:02 am

I've been suspecting for a while that my ex-fiance is a narcissist, but I'm not sure well she fits the criteria. When I look back and think about all the emotional abuse she put me through, I believe it fits with a lot of what I have learned about how narcissists abuse their victims.

She was often highly critical and controlling. I was often given grief if I did something she didn't approve of or if I didn't run it by her first. She would threaten to leave me whenever she didn't get her way on something. She would tell me that the other girls in her classes said I'm ugly and/or gross. And she slowly isolated me until my social circle consisted exclusively of her and her group of friends. At one point she got "offended" when a friend of mine made a joke, and at another she claimed someone was stalking her and didn't want me to spend time with him anymore.

One time we got into a wreck in her friend's car, and some of her relatives happened to come across us and helped out. My ex later claimed that her relatives heard me lie to the police about my age, and that one of them said she knew me from high school and I did drugs. She called the police and had them do a background check.

I didn't drink because I was Muslim, and she told me that she wouldn't drink either, even though I told her she still can drink if she wants to. Than one day we went to Wal-Mart with her friends, and she asked them to help her sneak alcohol by me, claiming I was being controlling and allowing her to drink.

Even when it came to intimacy, she always got me to do things for her (I'm trying not to be graphic) but never reciprocated. She often made excuses about not being comfortable or wanting to wait for marriage. My therapist told me that was part of control tactics.

Those are just some examples of how she treated me for over 2 years. Even before breaking up, she admitted to me that she had been manipulating me, but she made sure nobody else was around to hear it.

After I graduated from college, I went back to the country my family lives and taught English for a little bit. But it didn't work out because of visa complications and I had to return to the US prematurely with little money or nowhere to stay. The entire time I was overseas she pressured me to return and find a job in the US, but then she got angry at me for coming back. She broke up with me over the phone, calling me a bum and a loser and comparing to some deadbeat father she knew who was on drugs.

Oh, and after the breakup she told people things like: "He's Muslim. He was taught to treat women a certain way" and "He's a terrible person because he has autism."

The strange thing is she does not at all the kind of person whom you would think of as being a narcissist. She's not particularly attractive, and she has cerebral palsy and cannot stand or walk without assistance.

So I don't know if she fits the criteria for NPD, but I am certain the abuse was real.