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Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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Mishra2012
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16 Aug 2012, 9:50 pm

BlueMax wrote:
Stauffenberg wrote:
Don't forget that the behaviors involved aren't exclusively geared toward marriage or 'unoffical' long term relationships. There are some studies that suggest that women who can't successfully compete for a long term relations ship with an 'alpha male' would still have an affair / one night stand with that type of man, while choosing a more compliant man as provider for her and any children. I read a book on this. It was most interesting. :D

Yep. It's often referred to as a "dual mating strategy"... and I was the poor sap paying for her to live with me while she gave more sex to other hunky alpha men. I don't know if I'll ever fully recover from her incredible treachery, :(

Mishra2012 wrote:
I want a man that is introverted, RESPECTFUL, HONEST, compassionate, values good communication and capable of it to me that's a real "nice guy".

Live anywhere near western Canada? ;)


Haha no but I'm not opposed to meeting "the one" if he isn't in USA.


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Last edited by Mishra2012 on 21 Aug 2012, 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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16 Aug 2012, 10:14 pm

Kurgan wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Kurgan wrote:

There aren't really that many aging men in Sex and the City... plenty of 40- and 50-something women who act like metrosexual men, though.


Dude, no one minds if you watch Sex and the City. Really.
But shows that were canceled EIGHT YEARS AGO aren't the best examples to bring up.


The most recent movie is two years old. I don't watch the show, but both Kim Cathrall, Sarah Jessica Parker and the rest of them are well past 35.

It's the same way with Desperate Housewives.


I just had/have no idea why you randomly start talking about Sex and the City and Desperate Housewives.

The point being made was that age renders women invisible in mainstream media.
Pointing out this or that show as an exception when every OTHER show doesn't need a special premise to show aging men is hardly a refutation.


Women hit menopause and will thus reach a decline in physical attractiveness before men.

There are plenty of sitcoms where the 40-something bumbling dad also has a 40-something wife.

the part above, as bolded, is clearly just your opinion. if not for menopausal women's attractiveness, the cougar phenomenon would not be so prevalent. it's ok that you consider them less attractive, but you should understand it is how you personally feel. some men agree, some disagree.


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Stauffenberg
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17 Aug 2012, 2:43 am

hyperlexian wrote:
the part above, as bolded, is clearly just your opinion. if not for menopausal women's attractiveness, the cougar phenomenon would not be so prevalent. it's ok that you consider them less attractive, but you should understand it is how you personally feel. some men agree, some disagree.


To be fair, several studies (just google it) confirm that the majority of men are more attracted to younger women than older. So it's actually not 'just' his opinion. One of the theories are that the genes of men being attracted to younger women have been more successful, for obvious reasons.


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17 Aug 2012, 6:40 am

Stauffenberg wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
the part above, as bolded, is clearly just your opinion. if not for menopausal women's attractiveness, the cougar phenomenon would not be so prevalent. it's ok that you consider them less attractive, but you should understand it is how you personally feel. some men agree, some disagree.


To be fair, several studies (just google it) confirm that the majority of men are more attracted to younger women than older. So it's actually not 'just' his opinion. One of the theories are that the genes of men being attracted to younger women have been more successful, for obvious reasons.


Still he stated it as a fact and its not a fact(no matter how many people share his opinion there are people that disagree with it, no side is able to state their own opinion as a fact)



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17 Aug 2012, 7:30 am

spongy wrote:
Still he stated it as a fact and its not a fact(no matter how many people share his opinion there are people that disagree with it, no side is able to state their own opinion as a fact)


I think you're hairsplitting now. None of us are hardly that precise when discussing.


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17 Aug 2012, 8:00 am

Stauffenberg wrote:
spongy wrote:
Still he stated it as a fact and its not a fact(no matter how many people share his opinion there are people that disagree with it, no side is able to state their own opinion as a fact)


I think you're hairsplitting now. None of us are hardly that precise when discussing.


I think that you havent been around here for long.

If you post something as a fact most members will expect you to back it up when questioned, this is an opinion and cant be backed up so we are asking him to point out that its his personal opinion next time(which most of us do)



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17 Aug 2012, 8:05 am

I love both younger women and older women. They're both different kinds of hot. Variety is the spice of life, don't you know? Any man should...

Bang a young chick when he's young
Bang an older chick when he's young
Bang a young chick when he's older
Bang an older chick when he's older

Right? That sounds like great fun.



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17 Aug 2012, 8:29 am

spongy wrote:
I think that you havent been around here for long.

If you post something as a fact most members will expect you to back it up when questioned, this is an opinion and cant be backed up so we are asking him to point out that its his personal opinion next time(which most of us do)


No I haven't been here for long. But there is backing for his claim, as you can easily check for yourself, using whatever search engine that strikes your fancy. Properly stated: it's a fact that several studies and surveys show that a majority of men prefer younger women.


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zxy8
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17 Aug 2012, 9:26 am

Stauffenberg wrote:
spongy wrote:
I think that you havent been around here for long.

If you post something as a fact most members will expect you to back it up when questioned, this is an opinion and cant be backed up so we are asking him to point out that its his personal opinion next time(which most of us do)


No I haven't been here for long. But there is backing for his claim, as you can easily check for yourself, using whatever search engine that strikes your fancy. Properly stated: it's a fact that several studies and surveys show that a majority of men prefer younger women.


Yeah, I think most men prefer younger women also.

Me on the other hand, I prefer women at my age which is 22, going down only 1 year, while up 3/4.



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17 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm

In my mind a "nice guy" is just a guy who doesnt know how to make a pass and sits there waiting for the woman to do it. Don't be passive. Or he's a guy who has been rejected a few times and can't place it in context. That's normal. It happens. Don't fixate on it.

If your operating principle is that there is something wrong with women then how will you improve? It's unproductive at best.



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17 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:
spongy wrote:
I think that you havent been around here for long.

If you post something as a fact most members will expect you to back it up when questioned, this is an opinion and cant be backed up so we are asking him to point out that its his personal opinion next time(which most of us do)


No I haven't been here for long. But there is backing for his claim, as you can easily check for yourself, using whatever search engine that strikes your fancy. Properly stated: it's a fact that several studies and surveys show that a majority of men prefer younger women.

it doesn't make it universal. a "tendency" is not a "fact for all men".

most older men bang their own similarly-aged wives. if they didn't find them attractive, they would be unlikely to be able to do so on a regular basis. whatever they "prefer", they can get it up for older women.


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17 Aug 2012, 2:47 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:
spongy wrote:
I think that you havent been around here for long.

If you post something as a fact most members will expect you to back it up when questioned, this is an opinion and cant be backed up so we are asking him to point out that its his personal opinion next time(which most of us do)


No I haven't been here for long. But there is backing for his claim, as you can easily check for yourself, using whatever search engine that strikes your fancy. Properly stated: it's a fact that several studies and surveys show that a majority of men prefer younger women.
when presenting a claim, the onus is on the claimant to present evidence to back up his or her claim - not on the listener to research it.



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17 Aug 2012, 4:05 pm

Since it's relevant, I will talk about some study results that I have read about in the book that I mentioned.

Men to tend to go for younger women. When they rate attractiveness of pictures of women, the younger women tend to get the highest scores. Men in America tend to also marry women an average of around 3 years younger than them in the first marriage. In subsequent marriages, men tend to marry women who are even younger than them. These are just some examples of the studies in the book eluding to a trend.

There was one notable exception that was mentioned. When one rich man in his fifties divorced, he married an older woman who could help him raise his children. But as soon as his children were over 18, he divorced that woman and married a 23 year old Japanese woman. I found that story striking that the men who do not follow this norm may not have such good intentions as we would like to think.

The interpretation they gave was that unconsciously, he rates the older woman as more desirable than the younger women because of her child-rearing abilities. But as soon as that trait is no longer valuable to him, other women seem more attractive.



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17 Aug 2012, 5:32 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:
spongy wrote:
I think that you havent been around here for long.

If you post something as a fact most members will expect you to back it up when questioned, this is an opinion and cant be backed up so we are asking him to point out that its his personal opinion next time(which most of us do)


No I haven't been here for long. But there is backing for his claim, as you can easily check for yourself, using whatever search engine that strikes your fancy. Properly stated: it's a fact that several studies and surveys show that a majority of men prefer younger women.

Its also a fact that this cant be applied to every male and if you post it as something that applies to every male people have every right to point out that you are wrong.



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18 Aug 2012, 12:27 am

deltafunction wrote:
Since it's relevant, I will talk about some study results that I have read about in the book that I mentioned.

Men to tend to go for younger women. When they rate attractiveness of pictures of women, the younger women tend to get the highest scores. Men in America tend to also marry women an average of around 3 years younger than them in the first marriage. In subsequent marriages, men tend to marry women who are even younger than them. These are just some examples of the studies in the book eluding to a trend.

There was one notable exception that was mentioned. When one rich man in his fifties divorced, he married an older woman who could help him raise his children. But as soon as his children were over 18, he divorced that woman and married a 23 year old Japanese woman. I found that story striking that the men who do not follow this norm may not have such good intentions as we would like to think.

The interpretation they gave was that unconsciously, he rates the older woman as more desirable than the younger women because of her child-rearing abilities. But as soon as that trait is no longer valuable to him, other women seem more attractive.

in more feminist/egalitarian societies, men and women are closer in age at first marriage.

and whoever someone "rates" as most attractive is irrelevant if it doesn't translate into real-life relationships. looking at pictures is different from interacting with others and actually dating them. people tend to date other people that are similar in age - 3 years is not a big age gap.


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18 Aug 2012, 2:18 am

deltafunction wrote:
Since it's relevant, I will talk about some study results that I have read about in the book that I mentioned.

Men to tend to go for younger women. When they rate attractiveness of pictures of women, the younger women tend to get the highest scores. Men in America tend to also marry women an average of around 3 years younger than them in the first marriage. In subsequent marriages, men tend to marry women who are even younger than them. These are just some examples of the studies in the book eluding to a trend.

There was one notable exception that was mentioned. When one rich man in his fifties divorced, he married an older woman who could help him raise his children. But as soon as his children were over 18, he divorced that woman and married a 23 year old Japanese woman. I found that story striking that the men who do not follow this norm may not have such good intentions as we would like to think.

The interpretation they gave was that unconsciously, he rates the older woman as more desirable than the younger women because of her child-rearing abilities. But as soon as that trait is no longer valuable to him, other women seem more attractive.

:roll:
... because American (edit: middle- to upper-class white) men are paradigmatic representatives for the entire species. (/sarcasm)
Since you're still beating that drum, here are a few evolutionists talking on the subject of evolutionary psychology:
the best overview, in podcast form:
http://www.rationallyspeakingpodcast.or ... ology.html
written form:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... round.html
some specific criticisms:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ined-pink/
http://almostdiamonds.blogspot.com/2011 ... tions.html
http://crookedtimber.org/2012/01/16/hey ... te-no-wai/
http://www.psychologytoday.com/print/86893

edit: Aaannnd just for fun, a rant:
http://physioprof.wordpress.com/2009/02 ... king-shit/
quote:
Quote:
“Evolutionary Psychology” Is A Load Of f*****g s**t
February 18, 2009

Amanda has a detailed take down of a particular “evolutionary psychology” “study” yesterday that really makes clear that the motivation for this crapola is apologetics for misogyny. Here broader point–other than the specific takedown–is as follows:

[T]hese are troubling indicators that armchair evo psych “theories” about how women are biologically inferior to men have become so ingrained in our consciousness, that half-baked pseudo-science evolutionary just-so stories don’t have to be made up at all. Gender essentialist stories are now written, and the audience is free to assume that the measured trends are DNA-based and have no relationship to social conditioning at all.

As someone whose career is based on the reality of biological evolution, this “evo psych” arrant BS really pisses me the f**k off! There is absolutely no f*****g way that we could possibly distinguish the relative contributions of genetics and environment–including social environment–to complex social/psychological behaviors like human relationships even if that distinction were itself coherent. The entire f*****g fake-ass “discipline” is scientifically bankrupt, and populated solely by loser-ass “nice guy” motherf***ers who hate women because they can’t get laid.