Could you be loved?

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Okay, good! And...agreed! I´ve often said- and this idea was also quoted in my favorite AS film, "Ben X"- it´s not the Asperger´s, per se, that causes the Aspie problems; it´s how that person is treated by the rest of society. There ARE psychological repercussions to having AS. I think that´s a part of our daily reality.



Well, I don´t exactly think it´s okay either, but frankly, essentially every adult I know does this at one time or another. (Unless your definition of "temper tantrum" differs from mine?) We all need to blow off steam occasionally, at any age. The key is, not to hurt anyone in the process. What never ceases to amaze me is how often couples will rage at each other- slinging insults back and forth (though sometimes this is done passive-aggressively). Many people treat strangers with more respect than the person they supposedly "love"! And this I have noticed mostly from observation.

I actually don´t do this particular thing, as I can´t seem to tell an untruth in any form, even to blow off anger. But approximately 3/4 of the population does this, so it may be difficult to avoid.



I did not write these points to ask for help for myself, I basically wrote them to explain why people with AS are prone to abusive relationships, regardless of whether they had a dysfunctional background or not. Your point is that there must be other reasons, not Asperger´s, that are hindering us. My point is that no, it is precisely the Asperger´s that causes the difficulties! Otherwise, someone from the pre-diagnosis generation, like myself- with no alcoholism or dysfunction in the family- should have had no problems with relationships. Though I couldn´t "blame my problems" on Asperger´s Syndrome, it was clear that there was some unnameable "thing" that was causing me difficulty. It was this "thing" that prompted me to go on a lifelong search, where I finally landed on Asperger´s Syndrome.

Another point I keep harping on is that books can help to an extent, but we need EXPERIENCE. Remember, we are not automatically good with people. The NT social world is quick, and the modern world of dating and relationships is lightning fast. Many of us need more time, but the competitive world of today won´t give us time. I "fell into" some bad relationships- (maybe I should call them "entanglements")- before I really knew what was happening. I couldn´t second guess how my actions, or things I said would be interpreted; that took experience. I also missed several opportunities that may have been better, because my reactions were too slow. As I mentioned, the books that we need don´t exist, and may not help anyway without practice. Are there good books that explain how one can attract the right person, or how to start a relationship? I haven´t seen one, and I assume it has a lot to do with body language, which nobody seems to be able to explain well. Any books that tell us how to speed up our responses? How to recognize flirting, and what to say back? How to do this quickly enough so the moment isn´t lost? How to speak in a way that people can actually comprehend our words? (This is very important for a woman who is trying to say "no". Once again, I assume that has something to do with adopting the proper body language). We can have all kinds of knowledge in our heads, but putting that knowledge into practice in the real world- while dealing with people who are, by definition, unpredictable- that is the real challenge.



Basically, I agree. However, this may be more difficult in practice; or, like with other points I´ve mentioned, may be easier with experience, after one sees what a bad relationship is really like. The fact is, it is difficult to go years without a relationship. Let me point out that most of us have a regular sex drive, just like anyone else. It can be hard to be young and in your prime, and watch your life pass you by. This problem is compounded by the fact that people around you will constantly ask what´s wrong with you. "Why don´t you have a partner?" "How can you go so long without sex?" And, the real biggie: "Are you HAPPY?" You will see all your contemporaries in relationships, while you remain alone. Once you reach a certain age, the world around you is all couples. And couples tend to prefer being friends with other couples, so this will affect your social life on all fronts.

In my younger days, I blindly fell into some less-than-perfect entanglements because it had just been too many years without so much as a human touch. Or because I wanted to prove to the rest of the world- but mostly, to myself- that I was "normal".

I agree - there are psychological repercussions to having AS. And some of those repercussions can be mitigated with treatment, whether that treatment is therapy, exercise, meditation, yoga, journaling, etc.



A very sad, but very accurate observation.



No, that's your interpretation of my point. My point is that there may be other reasons that Aspies are hindered in relationships - and the symptoms of some of those other reasons can be improved.



But I can't provide experience, Morgana. The only thing I can provide is a little bit of advice on how to better prepare yourself for being in a relationship, so that you don't have to depend on your partner to define what dignity and respect means to you in your relationship. You should define those standards for yourself, and measure your partner's behavior against those standards. If he/she doesn't live up to your standards, DTMFA. That's advice I'd give to anyone, because I wouldn't want anyone to trust their emotional well-being to a stranger.

I understand that relationships happen quickly, and move at an uncomfortably quick pace for Aspies - but that's precisely why I'm encouraging Aspies to prepare themselves - to be better prepared to make reasonable, self-protecting and empowering decisions on the fly. I disagree - I think there are books available that can help any Aspie in this area.




Yes - tons of them. There are websites and books dedicated to these subjects. The best advice I can give in terms of attracting the right person is to get your own act together. Like attracts like, so do what's necessary to maximize your physical, spiritual, and psychological health/wellness. Did you ever notice how women attract the same kind of men over and over again? Doesn't matter if they're the same shape, size, or age - you can almost always find a pattern in the personality. Whether they're nice guys, abusers, addicts, intellectuals, etc. - there's a pattern there, and it's no accident.



Seriously, get a vibrator, get some porn, erotica, whatever. Yes, it can be difficult to be a "single" in a "doubles" world - that has nothing to do with being Aspie or NT. However, it's a helluva lot harder to be abused than to be alone. IMO, one should never settle for abuse.

Look, I know we've had our disagreements, and I'm still a bit wary of you. But I tend to evaluate behaviors on a post by post basis, and here, I can see that you're genuinely trying to help.

And honestly, yeah the above sounds like a good idea. At the end of my last appointment, I asked my therapist if she could make me self-loving without becoming self-absorbed (which i have a definite history for, as a child and now), and she said she'd see what we can do. Unfortunately shes not in this week, so I don't get to see her again until next week...

As for what a girlfriend can offer, there's still the fact that while I'm not overly sexual, I'm not entirely asexual either. Nothing that a little hand loving can't handle, but I'm not one to turn down a sexual advance made by a woman (unless there's some other factor like she has sexually transmitted diseases, she's under the influence of something, or out of my age range, etc etc), there just hasnt been any made. While the sex thing really doesn't matter to me, what really matters is all the other intimacy besides sex.

The church is all good at making me feel welcome and that there's a place for me in the world (even if i forget that point sometimes), but the only place I'm really deprived is that I don't feel loved on a personal level anymore. That's the main reason I want a girlfriend more than anything, and (aside from the fear of narcissism that I've talked about ad nauseam) is another big fear that I have about loving myself: if I love myself, I won't want a girlfriend anymore. There won't be any reason or impulse for me to get a woman at all. And, ironically enough, I'd end up at a 40 year old guy who lives alone, having only had a few casual sex partners along the way... and the most damning part is that I would be happy about such an arrangement...

It doesn't really work that way. Luckily you have this erroneous belief at an accesable, conscious level where the therapist can help you gently steer away from it. If it were a subconscious belief it would be a lot harder for therapy to help. She won't just say..."no, that's not how it works". I say it because I'm not a therapist. What good therapists do (and I had one back in the day) is gently steer you until suddenly it's you who says it and even feels it. Therange briefly described this process and I've been there too (although with issues not relevent to this board) so I know whereof he speaks.

What reason would i have to stay with a woman if I have no need for love or sex?

This is the sort of thing I read over and over again in all the self help books, but I find it to be simply untrue. In fact, I was interested in starting a thread about it sometime; maybe this "aura" stuff, and the well-being we may be giving off, is not "picked up on" so easily by NTs? It seems to be very popular nowadays to say "like attracts like", or to put the blame on the victim, which can cause even more depression or self hate. What I´ve been saying all along is I HAVE done all that self help stuff, I HAVE read far more books on relationships than probably anyone I know. In fact, people often come to me for psychological advice because I´m so well read on the subject, or I observe. I´ve "had my act together" for a very long time. I work on my physical, spiritual and psychological health more than most; God knows, I´ve had enough time to do it, while they´re busy having relationships! For years I´ve enjoyed my life, felt good about my work, felt good about myself- (aside from the fact that I appeared to be unlovable from a romantic standpoint). Even according to those books, I appeared to be doing everything right, so I couldn´t find the answers that way. This is why I´m beginning to think many of them are just "feelgood" books, or maybe not the right books for some of us. Some of them may have helped me feel better about my spirituality, but none of them helped me find relationships.

By the way, I finally have found the right person after all. How did I do it? I haven´t the foggiest idea. Call it luck, call it fate, call it a coincidence...who knows. So I can´t even give advice to other people. The point is, there was nothing about me that had fundamentally changed.

You have a need for love. Loving (accepting) yourself doesn't mean that from then on you decline all love from outside sources. Instead there is a synergistic effect. And you did say above that you are not asexual, you merely have a low to moderate drive. When you find a woman who is similar (in more ways than just that, of course) you will marry her (my confident prediction) and -yes- concieve children in the conventional sexual way. But you won't cheat on her. You won't even be tempted to. Which is a good thing.

But your own experience supports my point: you do have your act together, and you've attracted a man who does as well. You honestly don't see the connection between doing all the research you did (and absorbing that knowledge), and the improvement you've experienced in the quality of the relationships you have? I don't see that connection as luck or fate or a coincidence. I see it as cause and effect.

Look, I really don't support the idea of victimization in this context, because in the end, people make choices. Going into a relationship unprepared - with or without well developed social skills - is a poor choice, and one with typically negative consequences. But it's a choice, nonetheless. I'm trying to encourage people to prepare themselves - to let them know that there is a way to prepare themselves - and to not allow themselves to be abused or taken advantage of. Your steadfast message is that's an impossibility - that Aspies just have to throw themselves into the relationship grinder in order to get "experience." Okay, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Frankly, I've seen the difference that being able to identify healthy behavior within a relationship can make - it's empowering, it's positive, it's healthy. Along that same line of thought, l've seen enough evidence of "like attracting like" to know that it's relevant and real. I understand you don't see your situation that way, but IMO, that's a matter of perspective.

Oh and here's today's positive thing: I'm helping out in my church's youth program today...

Excellent! Thank you for sharing. I'll be looking for another one tomorrow.

This is a good entry for your list, btw.

Do you know anyone like this?
I don't.

How can you be so sure that I would meet such a woman? I've only met one woman that showed any interest in me at all, and i've said here many times how that turned out... What makes you think that I'm capable of connecting to anybody?

@Toad, you're only 21 years old, and you're taking action to make forward progress in your emotional and psychological health. You're getting a college degree, you'll have a good job some day, you're a solid church-going decent type of guy. You are your own worst enemy - but you're working on it. I'm just as confident you'll resolve your issues as Janissy is, and when you do - you'll attract some nice girls. Neither one of us can give you a guarantee, and I don't think we have a crystal ball between us. But taking the kind of action you're taking often results in success. What can we say? We have faith in you.

but if I can't even attract women now, when I'm already getting past the prime of my life, how am I supposed to be able to pull it off years down the road? I'm just going to be older and less appealing than I am now...

how many people have given you advice over the years man?

[quote="HopeGrows You're getting a college degree, you'll have a good job some day, you're a solid church-going decent type of guy. You are your own worst enemy - but you're working on it.[/quote]


I think this is an important point. I think that most of us are our own worst enemies. This goes for NT's and ASD's alike.