Cyber spying/stalking, am I obsessed and a creep

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Who's suggested anyone should be forced to do anything?



Yep, some people are ignorant a***holes that's for sure. Saying that's the way the world is doesn't make such behaviour ok.

I could reverse that and smugly say - wouldn't it be nice if everyone just accepted people just rejecting them out of hand for no apparent reason, shrugged their shoulders and moved on without comment - sure....but it's not like that, it will never be like that because people think and act differently and see situations in different light.

What good would that do for creating a kinder world where people treat each other better?

~Kate

i agree with that... and i think it goes both ways. if you (or anyone) are choosing, with your own free will, to continue to stalk/creep an ex-love, are you giving up your own freedom and being as responsible as you can be? or are you acting in your own best interests and potentially curbing someone else's freedom?

i think that there is, indeed, a best-case scenario for breakups. and then i think there is the reality. if people would like to change reality, there may be some actual way to fundamentally alter society... BUT continuing to follow, contact, search out, creep someone will not bring about any answers or changes. it can only bring more hurt to both parties (including the stalking party - because the stalking party is carrying around a lot of hurt that can only be healed from the inside).

has anyone considered that this behaviour (from both parties) post-breakup is a good sign that the relationship would never have worked in the first place?

I'll go a bit on a tangent here, hoping to get some perspective - I understand Kate's and nemerosa's position - I would like to hear from Kilroy and Hyper if you're still around. How much do you think it's society's fault for such attitudes and how much are you personally influenced by what the majority thinks? Do you make important personal decisions with long term consequences because you feel under pressure from the majority even if you don't agree with them? Do you think it's society's duty to play an active part in our personal life and ethical choices?

Just curious.

Last edited by Sallamandrina on 29 Dec 2010, 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That's a very astute observation - I like that you seem to genuinely want to do the right thing.

Let me know if I'm derailing your thread with the other post - I just try to understand better the way others think. Why is it so important to have society's approval and recognition?

@TheWeirdPig, I get the sense that you are really struggling with trying to do the right thing here, and I respect that. I'd like to remind you that the only person you can control in this life is yourself. You cannot force someone to "be honest" with him/herself, or "confidently take responsibility" or hang in with you until she's provided an answer that makes sense to you. You can't control her - not now, not when you were together, not in the future. You're not her parent - you're not responsible for her emotional development and/or maturity, and you're not going to force her to "grow up a bit." You don't know her side of your relationship better than she knows it. I think the reality is that you don't want to let her go, and creating this angst and drama around this tiny, tiny aspect of your relationship is just your way of holding onto it.

And @Kate, I'm wondering what it is you hope to accomplish with your ex at this point? I know what you want: an explanation. But you're not going to get that. So what is the healthy, constructive objective to be accomplished by continuing to ask for an explanation? Why is your "need" for an explanation more important than his "need" that you respect his decision?

I'm a bit shocked that it hasn't occurred to either of you that your ex didn't provide a reason because he/she didn't want to hurt you. I've heard, ad nauseum, about cowardice and a lack of ethics and immaturity and fear and timid irresponsibility being at the root of this behavior. But what if it isn't any of that? What if the cause of the break-up is something about you that you can't change? What if it's the color of your skin, or your ethnicity, or your beliefs, or your autism? What if each of your exes thought that they could handle being in a relationship with an Aspie, only to realize they couldn't? That's not something that's easy to learn about yourself, and if you'd be willing to admit it to yourself, it would be damn hard to admit it to the person you're breaking up with - particularly if you don't want to hurt them. But neither of you have even hinted that perhaps the explanation for the lack of a break-up reason has to do with kindness, concern, or caring. Yes, maybe you would have been okay with an explanation that devastated you - for a while - but most NTs would believe offering such an explanation would be nothing short of cruel. So perhaps your exes made a choice between the lesser of two evils, and chose to remain silent.

But again, to let the actions of another person control your life is dangerous, and debilitating. To hand someone else responsibility for your mental and emotional health is incredibly immature - it will not lead to happiness. You each have a choice to make. You can stay stuck in the pain - and continue to feed the emotional connection you have to your ex - or you can starve that connection. Eventually, it will die, and you'll start looking forward again - toward your next relationship. Or you can keep railing about how people should treat each other better. (And for the record, most of the posters in this thread have said that treating each other better is a good idea. What they can't abide is the idea that such a standard should somehow be enforced, because equitable enforcement is an impossibility. What do we do? Declare that in the event of a break-up, each partner has to be available to the other partner to discuss the dissolution of the relationship to each partner's satisfaction? How would you like to be meeting with your ex-college sweetheart every week until social security kicks in? Doesn't sound practical, does it?)

its not my fault the world doesn't work how you want
I am merely stating the truth, not my fault if you don't like it

well.... i don't know, really. i don't know if i think along the lines of the majority or not.

in relationships where i was the "dumper", i would suddenly come to a realization that the relationship was not going to work. i would know that i no longer felt any romantic attraction, and would end it swiftly. i would tell the person, honestly, that i did not feel anything stronger than friendship anymore. they didn't have bad breath, they didn't have annoying habits i couldn't live with, etc.

this probably left some people unsatisfied... but it was true. i did really care for them as friends - and nothing more. the spark was gone, and that was all. nobody ever kept after me for more explanations, but then nobody stayed friends with me either.

but does that have anything to do with society? i don't really see how society has very much to do with the fact that chemistry isn't always felt by both people in a relationship, and if one person just isn't "into" the other person, then of course the relationship should end. what possible explanation can be given besides the truth?

Last edited by hyperlexian on 30 Dec 2010, 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I actually have considered that, and I'd still rather know. I'd rather know that he can't deal with my autism (or anything else about me) than go through what I've gone through. NOTHING could be worse than scrutinizing everything from my height to my personality traits to my circumstances in life for clues and feeling sick because everything comes up short in some way. Knowing that someone doesn't like something about me, even something I can't change, doesn't devastate me. THAT could be about THEM. But not knowing, I am left to continually wonder. And, I don't even feel like I can get angry, because I have insufficient data. If we had a big fight and he said nasty things to me and insulted me and it was clear that he was a jerk, I could get angry and conclude I misjudged his character big time.

This is what I mean about being a coward. It's not about being kind, it's about not feeling awkward. These people don't want to see the "fallout" from telling the truth. When they run, the fallout is ALL on the other party. They get to have THEIR feelings spared. My ex didn't have to see a single tear. He used to tell me how he hated to see women cry. Well, he didn't have to...and it wasn't because he didn't CAUSE any pain, was it?

~Kate

And if I'd gotten that, I would've accepted it, NO problem. That's more than enough explanation for me.

~Kate

But isn't it possible that he didn't want to cause the fallout - or that he at least wanted to minimize it?

Look, you talk about this guy like he's the biggest schmuck on the face of the earth, but then you say you still love him and wish him only the best. If he really is the biggest schmuck, then I guess it's possible that he didn't care about the fallout.

But following that logic, if he's the world's biggest schmuck, how can you still love him and wish him the best? I mean....I doubt he's Satan, and I doubt he's Jesus. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle - perhaps just like his reason for being vague about your break-up?

As Stevie Wonder and Sir Paul sang, "There is good and bad in everyone."

He obviously must have had some very good parts; otherwise Kate wouldn't have liked him. However, his abilities to handle difficulties in a relationship were probably some of his bad points.

Should we not strive to improve our own good points and get rid of some of our bad points. Should we not encourage (notice how I say encourage, not force) and help our loved ones to do the same for themselves.

For me, accepting that people can't change or won't change is a rather defeatist attitude.

The truth is that I don't know, and the reason I don't know has NOTHING to do with me. If I knew he was the biggest schmuck in the world, I would have been so long over this that I would rarely be thinking about him except to try to learn how not to make such a mistake again with my easily-confusable emotions. That's why I wish he WOULD have said "Your eye color makes me want to puke" (or whatever it was, just pulling something out of the air) rather than leaving me hanging like this. The way things are now, I am scared to make myself vulnerable even in the smallest of ways (even friendship-wise) lest someone hurt me again in this way. I honestly cannot handle this, more than any other type of rejection or failure. I don't trust ANYONE now. It was years, almost a decade, before I trusted anyone after the last time this happened with a very close friend. I don't make deep connections with people often, and when they get abruptly ripped from me with no explanation that makes any sense, it is devastating to me like few things in life are.

I wish I KNEW one way or the other...if I KNEW he was a schmuck then I could STOP loving him and move on. That would be a solution. But it's not easy for me to just pass someone off that way without adequate data. My brain doesn't work that way. I know, I've tried. Doesn't compute. If I understood what happened and knew that he did care for me but, say, couldn't handle some circumstance or other, I could handle that too. I really, honestly, don't need him back. I just need to know so I can stop this infernal self-doubt and questioning. I can continue to care for someone and understand that they aren't capable of handling the circumstances...I'm in my 40s and that has happened to me before too....I'm not a naive kid. BUT that person was mature enough to discuss with me and make it clear and answer all my questions. Yeah, I was hurt, but I got over that too. The difference here is that I can't understand and I can't read minds.

~Kate

Well, exactly. There is good and bad in everyone. I don't know how much good and how much bad because it's been withheld from me. I think it's a good idea to encourage (NOT force) the good points.

~Kate

I work this way too. It always takes me years to get past these things. Trying to rush it makes it worse. I'm approaching 40 myself. I know at my age you're expected to behave in certain ways. I know you're simply expected to move on, let go, and get over it. It is just very hard for me.

Now that I am better understanding how my neurology works, I'm less worried about people coming up with crazy and off the walls explanations for my behavior (my mother coddled me too much, my father didn't take enough interest in me growing up, I was bullied too much, "can't you tell when a girl is into you or not?", etc.) I'm not ashamed of these ideas because I know they are bunk. I still don't understand why a woman could be so into me that she volunteers to change her work schedule on Monday to spend time with me, and by Friday she's telling me it's over. What happened in those few days? I can't imagine the chemistry was suddenly gone, or the spark faded without some sort of intense stimulus. But over time, I have to wonder if her fear has turned into pride.

Whatever it was must have scared her tremendously. It must have scared her so much that she couldn't even talk to me about it (and probably nobody else either). I wish I would have understood it at the time. Maybe I could have comforted her better.

It would just be nice if someone was to step in and say to her, "Hey [name not given], haven't you been a bit harsh on him? Is it really going to kill you to take a bit of time to sit down and talk with him?" But instead, everyone seems to be defending her right to be left alone. I think they think they're helping her. But are they really?

well sure... i try to help people improve and accept help from them too... but only when i am still in a relationship with them. once it is over, it is over. if i'm just friends with someone, it isn't my place to get them to improve in some way according to my standards.

if they do something in the context of the friendship that upsets me, i will tell them. or if they specifically ask me for advice on something, i can help them. but i am thankfully not their moral and ethical guide. they ultimately make their own choices. and if i find them so reprehensible that i can hardly stand them as people, then i don't stay friends with them.