Religion and dating

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Exactly. This is exactly what I believe and what my church supports.

Out of curiosity,

Why is it a problem for someone liberal like you?

It's only a problem for me because I would want my children to share in something that brings me peace. My future husband is allowed to share his beliefs (or lack thereof). The child can reject my beliefs when they are old enough should they choose to do so. However, I want to give the child the option of believing and share in Christmas caroling or helping out at the church's service projects for the community. Some of it isn't even religious. It's simply traditions and giving back to the community that I want my child to take part in. Teaching a child compassion and charity is important in my parenting. Many of my opportunities to express those values are through church activities. As you know, I already have a daughter. It brings her joy to make other people smile.

I certainly don't mind. In fact one of the two LTR's I've had in my life was with a conservative evangelical Christian. I went to church with her, said grace before eating, etc. It helped to expand my cultural horizons. Thankfully she didn't indulge in gay-bashing or something hateful like that which would have required me to say something. The only time it would get awkward would be when we were at a natural history museum or something and evolution/the age of the Earth would come up - I just ignored it.

I think it can work as long as the religious party isn't excessively hateful - that's the only deal-breaker for me.

Didn't Computerlove have that same avatar for a while?

I never understood why the Pat Robertson types out there believe that certain people receive salvation while others don't. Some will point to the Christian dogma of Jesus being the only source of salvation, but that's not incompatible with the belief in everyone still receiving salvation. I can't really imagine Jesus standing at the gates of Heaven acting like a bouncer. In the stories mentioned in Christian scriptures, Jesus is often depicted going out of his way to include people that others, even his own freaking apostles, want to exclude. So, yes, I can believe in a salvation that only comes through Jesus, but he's not going to turn anyone away just because they weren't a card-carrying member in life.

This is basically it. Can you live with someone with different religious beliefs. If you can, great. If not, then both of you need to move on to other people that you can live with. It has nothing to do with religious dogma or belief systems, only with how compatible you truly are.


That goes for anyone, regardless of belief system (or lack thereof). I don't mind being with someone of a different faith than my own. As long as she doesn't force me to convert to her side, I won't force her. She's certainly welcome to join me if that is her desire, but my own personal belief system is set, and I don't see myself deviating from that, regardless of what church, if any, I attend in the future. But there is no room in my life for haters, christian, athiest, or otherwise. As far as I'm concerned, someone hating on my belief system, whether it's someone calling homosexuals an abomination or someone saying that anyone who believes in something that can't be proven is an idiot, is making a personal attack on me. (No, i'm not a homosexual, but I believe that homosexuals are human beings like everyone else). Disagreeing is one thing; certainly we all have our own beliefs with potential incompatibilities, but mostly we can get along well despite those. I'm talking about the super-extremist types like Fred Phelps and Richard Dawkins. People such as these have made personal attacks on me through my own belief system, and as such, I refuse to associate.

Christianity clearly states that only through Jesus Christ you can be salved and saved and go to heaven. Even bad Christians can have second chances by asking for forgiveness and believing in Jesus' sacrifice for them.

Atheists do not believe in Jesus Christ==> they can't be saved==> So Atheists will go to hell.

Some western Christian churches believe that non-Christian theists might go to heaven, but they say nothing about atheists.


and where I live, yes...most Christians and almost all Muslims believe that atheists will go to hell.

You westerners had became too moderate to the extent that you no longer are able to believe in true Christianity. That's good, but that's also delusional in my opinion.

Making children to go to chuch each sunday and make them listen to what priests every week is also a kind of brainwashing.

I am against any form or shape of brainwashing.

I wouldn't mind if they'll make a Christmas tree or enjoy easter eggs or sing Ramadanian songs.

And once my children become little older and more aware, I wouldn't mind if they'll go to a Church or to Mosque or even to a Buddhist temple, as long they're no going to some crazy cult or to some extremist faction that promotes and encourages violence and inhumanity.

Their future religion or the absence of it will be THEIR choice, and not the result of an ideological raising.

If my child asks me what's god , I will explain it to him what god means in every religions and philosophy. It'll be his or her choice to choose whether to believe in anyone of them.

That's how a true liberal would raise his/her children.

In the vein of you [geographic location], I'm going to simply say that you middle-easterners are the most extremist people on the planet, regardless of beliefs. Separation of church and state in the western countries and in various other locations around the world is what allows for the moderate approach. A family engaged in "brainwashing" their children and an extremist (yet largely non-violent) protesting cult like the Westboro Baptist Church is one thing, but the various theocracies in your area like Iran and Saudi Arabia and Israel, and the constant violence rooted in religion like in Iraq and your own country of Lebanon achieve the same effect on a national level. You are the ones that are delusional in that you believe that multiple religions cannot get along. The very existence of the US proves that you are wrong. I'm hoping that the changes in places like Egypt can demonstrate that non-violent protest can in fact happen in the area, but I'm not holding my breath.

Doesn't feel good, does it? Honestly, I couldn't care less about most of what I just said above, I only said it to make a point. That's what I feel like every time you say "you westerners"... I take an attack like that just as personally as "you christians" or "you aspies" or "you this" or "you that". If it's attacking any facet of my way of life, you might as well be calling me out by name and attacking me as a person, because that's what you're doing.

Last edited by ToadOfSteel on 04 Mar 2011, 2:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Although intellectually I probably agree with Dawkins 100%, I still think he's an a$$hole and don't read his books.

And I will bet any amount of money that Phelps is gay as a debutante...

@ToS

I see your point regarding Islam, but I think the biggest problem is a total lack of understanding of "mainstream" Islam, which we have essentially zero visibility to.

Actually, I had a lot of exposure to Islam in college. I'm not entirely 100% sure, but I think the school I went to had more muslim adherents than catholics, though it was close, and all christian denominations combined would still be a majority. As far as I could tell, they're normal people just like anyone else. But they aren't from the middle east, either. You'll notice I included Israel in my list of theocracies. It's not a muslim thing at all...


Oh he's a fag all right, in the way that the as*hole that just sniped me in halo is a fag...

O Thank you.

Don't think that you moved an inch of my feelings, you didn't.

Well, maybe "we" middle-easterns are the most extremist people on earth because "we" live in the area where all celestial religions started. Here is the root area of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. And Christians here are mostly the descendants of the first Christians in the world.

And oh, please don't give me lectures about how the US is a live truth of the possibility of religions' coexistence.

The US wouldn't be the same if it was 30% Sunni, 30% Shiites, 30% Christians of several sects , 5% Druzes and 5% of Alawites and Jews.

No country in the world would be the same with such numbers. A very bad and not-applicable comparison indeed.



and 60% of your people still reject evolution , a higher number than all European countries ....except turkey (in case it's considered as european).

And about 40% are against the teaching of evolution in schools and about 28% of teachers are ignoring evolutionary biology.

Not a very secular society , that only reflect how they would react if Muslims/Buddiths make up 50% of their country.

SOMEONE HAD TO OPEN THAT CAN OF WORMS!

Look, I am not going to try to explain it to you because it is beyond your understanding. Most of my family is from the Middle East. There is a huge gap between us. It's nearly impossible for you to understand how religion can be optional, separate, and liberal. I've had this argument with my Middle Eastern family a million times, only with them on the other side wishing for me to be more conservative because liberal America has ruined me and caused me to leave the religion of my birth.

Last edited by abaisse on 04 Mar 2011, 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ToS and I live in New Jersey. There is a huge Muslim population here. There are more Muslims in the state than Jews now (which is saying a lot...). I'm exposed to Islam every single day. Our state in predominantly Catholic, but Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and Atheists have similar numbers to Protestants.