applying pickup skills in real life - an example

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Yep, Agree

Many people are just strongly (emotionally) biased against PUA, Might aswell insert the term Nazi for PUA in this thread and things become more understandable. Its the same with modern rap culture, try convincing anyone that there are rappers out there who are respectable people. It will be almost impossible.

Ill add to it some more, i think people should start to educate themselves on the topic of pick up art before going at guywithas like they do. To me people are very misinformed. So i have to give credit to the topic starter for dealing with all this crap like he does. This reminds me of a science vs faith discussion yes i like extreme comparisons. Try to leave your emotions out of it and actually look at what hes saying and Pick up art in a more objective manner. If you are not willing to do some open minded research instead of only looking for arguments to reinforce how you think pua is for pigs then i suggest not to post at all.

I only see people quoting the worst kinds of pick up art to smear the topic starter.

I have no emotional bias against PUA, I just think it sucks. I know there are people here who do have an emotional bias against PUA though. Those feelings will perhaps keep them safe from predators in future.

your point only makes sense if all of the dissenters were victims, but they are not. most of the people who disagreed with PUA on this thread are people who have never been victimized.

wow. wishing i hadn't stumbled across this thread, but so i have, and so i have to opine, or at least ask:

1. how does this stuff lead to happiness? what gratification is there in misleading people (or achieving a sense of superiority or control over them)? seriously - what kind of person does this? what kind of person finds happiness this way?
2. why is it that all the negative feedback about all this does not succeed in giving you any insight about what might be insincere or counterproductive about it? it's nearly delusional ..




be honest and straightforward with other people, as is his nature. this is the best thing about having Asperger's! it's the last trait someone should try to mask or unlearn.

i get the impression this - salesman mentality, i'll call it, just to be clear that lacking the "pick up artist" stigma, it still is equally repulsive - is a skill set he's trying to patent, and this thread was some kind of experiment that has completely exploded in the chemistry lab but which he is still presenting as so successful no one could possibly object to it but for jealousy.

guywithAS, i have nothing better to do than read the whole thread, and i have, and the objections to PUA techniques and your application of them in particular are not attacks; they're outrage, pure and sincere. the only type of person i can see benefiting from something that leaves so many others horrified is someone that views himself as so superior to others that he does not care what affect his behavior has, as long as he achieves his desired ends.

is this you? then your problem is narcissism, not AS. if not, then perhaps this is not the solution you believe it to be.



i think zen_mistress was educating everyone quite well on the topic, a few posts above yours. why do you think they call it "pick up art"? if it was simply "confidence training" it would probably not involve swindling others.

this sort of behavior is unfair to the people who are subject to it. i am not responding from an illogical place when i say that i don't believe that is morally acceptable.

Like i said before if you are looking for negativity you will find it, there is plenty of that in the PUA scene. I dont like mystery method and the more commercial pick up art either. But dont neglect the good things it has to offer. There are plenty of good sources out there, that can be respected. You just have to digg harder to find it. I dont see the problem with people working to improve themselves and making others feel good in the process. True pick up artists will say that it is not about the women but its about personal growth. Pick up art is just a name that stuck because its catchy but really doesnt do it any good.

it is possible to achieve personal growth without using and discarding women (or men) in the process. i am suspicious of anyone who asserts that they are using PUA techniques for anything else. why on earth would anyone use a system like that when there have been thousands of books and programs (with proven effectiveness) for personal growth available for decades? there are many useful systems that don't involve manipulating and abusing women's trust, so if a person chooses to use the PUA schemes instead, i'd say they have another agenda altogether.

there are several paths to the desired goal, and a path that does not carry the same potential for damage is clearly a more ethical one.

Some of us may be looking for it, and some of us may not be. What we're all finding, however, is stuff like this --v




You've said in a number of different ways over a couple of posts somewhat vague things like --v


If you're familiar with "the good things it has to offer," would you mind being the one to do the digging and present some of these respectable sources? We're an open-minded bunch and probably inclined to investigate further. But, just saying they're "out there" doesn't do much for your argument, ultimately.


Do you see our problem? We've been rubbed pretty raw by the fact that what has come out so far doesn't have a damn thing to do with "making others feel good in the process." Quite the opposite, and there's been plenty of anecdotal evidence offered for you and everyone else to see that people who employ these methods are hurting people -- not making them feel good.


So why don't they leave women alone and volunteer at homeless shelters? There's lots more personal growth to be experienced in a situation like that than there is in manipulating innocent women, with hopes and expectations you guys have no intention of fulfilling, into bed.

Not every person who is familiar with pua uses and discards women, not everything about pick up involves manipulating and abusing a womans trust. You have an image of pua that is very black or white. Why is it so hard to accept that there might be a tiny percentage of people using their understanding of social dynamics to make themselves and others feel good.

Dont get stuck on the word pick up too much. Like i said its very detrimental because it gives people the wrong idea sometimes. For the most part i agree pua is dominated by douches. But if you try to shine a light on that small part that is to be respected then people are put off because all the baffoons running around made using the word a disgrace.

BTW Im no pick up artist at all im not representing anyone, i just had a small interest in it at some point.
I already regret getting into this discussion, i feel like a sheep jumping into a group of hungry wolves.
Also i dont feel like spending the time needed to argue or try to convince anyone so you win, i give up.
In no way am i defending neal strous or mystery like i said in a previous post i dont like them.

Last edited by TB on 06 Jun 2011, 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

the small part that may be positive is available in other programs that don't involve the nasty side of PUA. there may be some aspects that are positive, but those same aspects can be learnt from a program that is not based on the PUA foundation. if a person wants to learn to be a better human being, or learn social skills, or whatever, there are many many ways to do that which don't also advocate abusing other humans (or turning oneself into a douchebag).

the point is that if there is a gem at the core, it is not at all necessary to become a douchebag to learn it - the same things can be learned in a positive context.

Yes, but those positive things wont get you laid. Which is the basis behind PUA.

EXACTLY!

all the explanations about how PUA schemes are a great way to develop real-life skills don't get around the fact of what that stuff is intended for.

There are some "real life skills" that can be aplied. But they wont get you anywhere.

I think I know what gem your talking about a few things I had the luck to have training in,
that have helped to change my life & still dones.

There my views about finding love from a guy who trained like my the same core, I love the metaphore he uses

Note the following video does have two uses of bad language

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2nAqRjEgd0&feature=related[/youtube]

SHINE ON YOU CRAZY DIAMONDS!! ROFL

You know, no one asked you to martyr yourself. I actually want to hear what you have to say. And all (at least) I asked -- from you and from guywithAS -- is for some sort of simple demonstration that these techniques can be used for good as well as for evil. No one has been able to do that despite repeated requests. We're interested ... and we're googling! Unfortunately, all we're coming up with is garbage like I quoted in my post above. I, for one, would like to be proven wrong, here. I'd like to find out that you're really a decent guy who's done what you claim to have done: improved yourself while making others feel better about themselves. No one's saying that there's anything wrong with that. What we're questioning is whether that exists -- even remotely. Sorry, it's no good to say to an open-minded person that you can't be bothered to spend the time because you feel like a lamb being led to the slaughter. "You win, I give up" is not a valid response to "please, show me."

Huh? This is what we're talking about? "Just be yourself, be who you really are, be honest, be authentic."

~so confused now~