If it turned out your partner was transsexual...

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Good point.

That's why I'm so against gender-based culture.

So basically you want us to believe that the needs of homosexuals and transsexuals are not their fault; they are biological. But, at the same time, you are ALSO saying that the needs of straight people are conditioned by "gender-based culture". Do you see the double standard here?

Being a transsexual is thought of as a biological feeling as it has been present throughout history, even before sophisticated surgeries were even possible (see Elagabalus). However, the 'shadow' of the transsexual's former genitals is what tends to disturb the common person, which may often to be due to 'gender-based culture', or the feeling of 'what you are at birth is what you are', even though this mentality does not work for many things, like sexuality. Everyone is born aromantic and asexual until they reach puberty, which is often the same time transsexual feelings become present in some people, due to the more drastic change in female and male bodies. However, one feeling is given validity (sexuality) and the other is not (the alignment of gender and sex).

A man, when going out with a transwoman, after discovering what they were born as, may have feelings of repulsion due to the realisation that they were born male. However, the transwoman may have a typically female amount of oestrogen flowing through her veins, breasts, a vagina and a body that looks female. The only thing that the man may find repulsive is the fact that this woman has not always been female. Even if the woman had been male for a shorter amount of time than they had been female (if they transitioned at 18, but the man met them when they were 42 for example), their past self is given more validity over what they currently are.

Many people see transsexuals as deceptive when not revealing themselves because most people like security and comfort in their stereotypes. They like to remain in the world where women are born female, men are born male, and transsexuals are easy to spot. When this comfort is taken away from them, everything becomes very confusing. Instead of blaming themselves for holding everyone to such stereotypes in the first place, they often blame the transperson for 'fooling' them, when actually, if they were more open to the idea of having many different types of people which defy many gender stereotypes (androgynes, intersex, transgender & transsexual people, occasional cross-dressers, masculine women, feminine men etc.), they would not find it to be a problem in the first place.

We still live with gender castes.
If you are born with dick you get these specific male toys, you're expected to not cry, be strong, act like a man (based on culture definition) and people around you won't treat you the same way as with girl.
Likewise if you are born with a vagina you're expected to follow the women role.
The thing is that it's everywhere. Your family, your teachers, TV, internet, ect. Everything distinguish male from female and you're expected to follow your role (although not 100%).
Have you ever seen a movie where the main character is a female, she saves a vulnerable and sensitive men and then date him? I don't think so...

Without these gender castes, people could simply be themselves and not be influenced by their expected gender role. In today's society, people who doesn't conform to some of the gender stereotypes get discriminated, rejected and disapproved. We don't need caste anymore...

It would bother me, most definitely. I don't think I could continue the relationship.

Well said.

Part of the problem is that by avoiding mentioning the fact that you're a transexual, you'd probably also have to modify or lie about other things from your past to make it add up. I just can't see any way that you could be otherwise totally honest without causing suspicion and it's the knowledge that someone must have been deliberately trying to keep it from me that would cause the most pain.

Karenina, you hit the nail on the proverbial head.

You're absolutely right in that it's the hiding that would hurt the most. Although I would have a hard time being attracted to a man, even if he was now a she.

I agree with you to the extend of the issue of affeminite men or masculine women. It is quite possible that naturally man would not necesserely be "strong" or woman would not necessary be "sensitive". Also it is possible that, if not for cultural influence, women could have been attracted to sensitive men.

What I DO insist upon, however, is that straight people will NOT want to be sexually with someone of the same gender, regardless of presence of cultrual influences. Yes, they might want to be with people of opposite gender who happen to break cultrual stereotypes; but this is completely separate issue.

The problem with transsexuals is not the violation of cultural norms; the problem is that they can be regarded as people "of the same gender" regardless of what your gender might be. I don't care whether they are affeminite or masculine or what not. What I care about is that htey are partly men and I am not attracted to men.

You'd be surprised how little of a person's childhood has anything to do with gender. I could speak at length about what I enjoyed doing, how school was and how my parents were without mentioning gender at all. I've always hung around with boys and have been called 'one of the boys' or an 'honourary boy' anyway, and was referred to as 'he' once in a while.

I don't see why that particular part of a person's history is that important. Would you be upset if they didn't tell you that they'd once broken their arm or had a glass eye?

So you're telling me that sex reassignment surgery is so successful that a surgically constructed vagina is indistinguishable from a biological one? And that it's unreasonable for a straight man to have a psychological reaction to the idea of putting his penis into a cavity lined with former penis skin?

A transperson is not able to have kids biologically, should people who care about that not react?

Lots of men dislike fake breasts and prefer natural ones, do you really expect no reaction at all from anyone to an artificial vagina?


In other words, "according to my viewpoint, you shouldn't be bothered".

You don't get to tell other people what they are bothered by.


If that's what happened, they would be right.


Androgynous people, masculine women, and feminine men all violate gender stereotypes, but few people actually care.

Transsexuals could go to great lengths not to break gender stereotypes, and many people would still care.

It isn't about gender stereotypes.

Many gynecologists cannot tell the difference, so yes.


That's a very strange way of putting it... That's like being repulsed at touching a face that has has skin taken from their arm put on their face (possibly due to an accident).


Would people react as strongly if the person was not transsexual, but still infertile?


How many men would dump a biological woman for fake breasts or an altered vagina?


I can make a rough guess, which is what I was doing. I get the feeling the people I mentioned are a bit bothered by the fact that the 'victim' may actually be the transperson, not their partner. Possibly because it's a little irritating that just because they're the 'normal' one doesn't mean their feelings are more important than the transperson's. It seems like they have to automatically bend to the 'normal' person's will without the 'normal' person doing anything in return.

Much like some heterosexuals demand that homosexual couples don't display affection in public, it is plainly because they are part of the majority and therefore consider themselves superior in some way. This means that they think their feelings must be listened to, despite the fact that they're hurting the feelings of someone else.


If you mean 'fooling' as in acting like, looking like & generally presenting as the gender they are, then yes, I can see exactly how that'd be confusing. I mean, women that look like, act like and are women really confuse me too.


In a way, it is. Society currently makes us expect that women are born female and men are born male. Transsexuals flip this whole idea on its head. A transman for example, could have a penis, testes, a flat chest, narrow hips, a male level of testosterone, a deep voice, a male name and a beard. However, they were born female. The idea that someone could defy what they were like at birth in such a way is pretty extreme, which is why it makes some people uncomfortable. Some are uncomfortable with things that they don't come across often, like people with mental health issues, people with physical disabilities, intersex people, foreign people, people who aren't heterosexual and so on.

Reference, please.


Arms and penises are a little different, psychologically. At least to most straight men.


Good point, but we are talking about an entirely constructed vagina, not just an altered one.


I'm not saying anyone's feelings are superior. I'm saying that both should be taken into account.


'Are' mentally to this partner of theirs that they never bothered to mention this to?

Let me ask you this: If you had been with a romantic partner for awhile, they suddenly found out that you were a transsexual and immediately broke it off with you, would you not also be upset? Wouldn't it be a better idea (for both of you) to find out what their reaction would be before it became a problem?


And springing something like this on someone who's uncomfortable with it, in the middle of a romantic relationship, isn't right.

It’s unfortunate that I’m gay, because I can’t say, “I would kick her in the balls!”

I'm TS (M2F). I'm post-op. My birth certificate, drivers licence, passport etc all say "Female". I can get legally married in any country.

Some of the things that people have said in this thread make sense... other comments are pretty abhorrent. Assuming that you go through the WPATH/Harry Benjamin process then it takes an unbelievable amount of effort to reach the end point: endless psych and medical evaluations; HRT; you name it.

I accept, though, that there is a moral dilemma about telling potential partners. Personally I think that if I'm going to enter into a relationship with someone then they should know. Not because it's lying or untruthful if I don't, but because it forms a part of my past and who I am as a person.

The big problem is when to tell them: too early and you run the risk of becoming a victim of a transphobic attack; too late and emotions are involved and the whole situation can become very messy. It's not an easy decision to make. People who you think will have an issue often surprise, and those who you think won't often disappoint. The world is a strange place.

The one thing I will not accept, however, is the idea that my gender history in any way makes me less female, or less of a woman, than a GG - or that if a guy sleeps with me his must be less than "straight".

Just my 2cents for what it's worth .

EDIT: i should mention that i have had the occasional one night stand without mentioning anything and to the person above who questioned whether or not guys can tell the difference, the answer is: no they can't - and neither can my (female) doctor

I think I would be hurt that my partner didn't trust me enough to tell me. For the first few dates, it's not really my business I guess, but if things are serious and I consider them a partner? That would be bad. Also, I'm a really open and honest person so they would know early on whether or not they could trust me with that information. If they truly felt they couldn't then maybe they shouldn't be with me.