A True Nice Person

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DW_a_mom
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06 Jun 2014, 12:36 pm

sly279 wrote:

"i'm use to being the provider in the relationship...I'm so exhausted..I just want to find a real man. one that can treat me like a woman should be treated.

I want to be swept off my feet. I want to be impressed and charmed. I've never been with a man that made me feel supported or protected."

what this reads to me is she wants a man who has money that can provide for her.

some will even go to the point of saying they want a guy that can spoil and shelter them.

Growing tired of "real man" i might start a thread on it. would it be ok to say I'm looking for a "real woman" or would women find that offensive?

"Basics like job, vehicle and your own place." >.>

here's a good one but too old for me it seems.
"I'm looking for someone between the ages of 32-40 who is self sufficient, enjoys the outdoors and has a great sense of humor."

I get the not wanting to have to pay for another person, but requiring they make enough to pay for you too seems a superficial thing when looking for love. I at least I think it is.

I could compile a lot more but its quite depressing to me and off topic. I do feel like some on here think i'm making it up as some hurtful attack towards women. I don't hate women and I wish it was mad up. most the women here are very picky. No job=no date doesn't matter if you are the greatest guy in the world they'll never know as you have no job and therefore won't talk to you. I suppose I could just lie to them. I find it super hard to be dishonest. My current job apparently doesn't count as a job, plus it'd be found out eventually even if I ignored their texts to make it seem i was working, eventually we'd spend more time together and she'd catch on. I imagine such a relationship built on lie would be make most people very mad.

These quotes sound like they come from women with a history of relationships where they probably did 90% of everything. Earning the money, doing the housework, and providing the emotional support. ALL relationships are a trade off, so if a guy isn't earning the money, he should consider what he CAN provide in the relationship. A lot of men who don't work haven't figured out how to actually contribute something of value, like doing housework, cooking, running the calendar, making the appointments or being appropriately emotionally supportive. All those things take a large investment of time, and many men who have never tried to do them inappropriately discount their value and, thus, don't think it is a big deal if they don't try to handle any of them. But if a man who is not earning money provides a bunch of the things on the list, the woman feels "supported" and like she has a "partner." I know several couples in our area with flipped roles and it works well for that reason, the man has really stepped up and taken on what have traditionally been female roles in a relationship. Those are the dads I see taking the kids to the doctor, shopping the groceries, planning the family vacation, running all the errands, meeting with the kids' teachers, preparing healthy meals, and so on. The non-working dad I knew who spent his days hanging out with friends in a coffee shop - well, he is divorced now.

Now, I doubt those particular woman (that you quoted) would be open to trying again with a man who can't provide his share financially, because in their eyes they've given it a try and been burned. But that does not mean a different woman might not be willing to give it a shot. Just remember that if someone does, you have to ask yourself, what are YOU doing to be a good, strong partner for her? You don't have to do everything on the list (I can't clean house worth beans and I don't, we hire that out (I DO earn money, I work part-time, but nothing close to half)), but you have to do enough to make it obvious that you are contributing more than your good looks and warm hugs to the relationship.

PS - the ones that go so far as to say they want a man who will support and shelter them are basically saying I don't care what you look like or what you act like; I will be your arm candy as long you can provide those two things. To me it almost sounds like saying "I'll sell myself so I don't have to work or worry." Some men want that. I don't get it, but so be it. That is a whole other world, so to speak, than the one we seem to live in. That is also very different from a woman tired of men who haven't tried to be a true partner in any significant way.

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sly279
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06 Jun 2014, 9:42 pm

going do this in one post to not clog stuff up.

hale_bopp wrote:

sly279 wrote:

.........

Please don't use dating profiles as examples of real people. They're not realistic. Usually when it says that it just means they don't want to date a loser and a leech.

why. for the non spam bots, they are real people. I find it hard to believe some one would be person A on the net then be polar opposite in person. jackass online, jackass in person. these women feel like this in person just as they do online. My profile is honest and real and the ones I've met from sites have been too. seems to be this idea that everyone makes a fake profile when they go online, if this was so then there wouldn't be any site meet ups as their lies would be uncovered. lets say you're right, just the fact they feel they can be mean or superficial online vrs off tells me they aren't for me.

Shaded wrote:

....
But if you look at OLDing those people are single for a reason. You can approach these people with a fake profile just to bring out their true nature. I have seen it done before and it is quite sad.

People may not "just find you attractive", but once you reach a new goal ohhh boy do you start to look good. I.E., a chubby girl could hit on me and want to date me; great personality may I add. I reject because of her size. Fast forward months later she loses weight and looks great. "Now" I want to date her. But she'll say, where were you when I was trying to lose weight?
......
I think most ASD people get SSI. And any type of help from the government gets you ridiculed on and looked down upon. I understand how that feels.

I feel that way I won't date any of the women who list having a job once I get one. If I'm not good enough now then i won't be good enough if i lose the job. I also doubt the jobs I'm working towards will be good enough for them anyways as some don't count low jobs as jobs. such as my seasonal job I currently have.

yep it is indeed looked down upon by most.

tarantella64 wrote:

hale_bopp wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Do you date jobless men, hale bopp?

I have, many times. They turned out to be scum bags for other reasons.

Yep, that. In fact the scumminess was often a cause of the joblessness. If you're miserable to people and you screw over employers, you have fewer options.

Most of my friends have also had stints of unemployment -- that's part of the GenX/Millennial story. But the only non-boyfriend, non-disabled friend I can think of who's spent years unemployed is a guy who's really gigantically tall and overweight and looks like a crusher. I mean if you don't know him, he looks really intimidating. He's smart as hell and very very polite and a wonderful husband and daddy, but I bet he's lost jobs just by looking a bit scary.

what do you consider unemployed?
no job
no full time job

sly279
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06 Jun 2014, 9:56 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

sly279 wrote:

......

These quotes sound like they come from women with a history of relationships where they probably did 90% of everything. Earning the money, doing the housework, and providing the emotional support. ALL relationships are a trade off, so if a guy isn't earning the money, he should consider what he CAN provide in the relationship. A lot of men who don't work haven't figured out how to actually contribute something of value, like doing housework, cooking, running the calendar, making the appointments or being appropriately emotionally supportive. All those things take a large investment of time, and many men who have never tried to do them inappropriately discount their value and, thus, don't think it is a big deal if they don't try to handle any of them. But if a man who is not earning money provides a bunch of the things on the list, the woman feels "supported" and like she has a "partner." I know several couples in our area with flipped roles and it works well for that reason, the man has really stepped up and taken on what have traditionally been female roles in a relationship. Those are the dads I see taking the kids to the doctor, shopping the groceries, planning the family vacation, running all the errands, meeting with the kids' teachers, preparing healthy meals, and so on. The non-working dad I knew who spent his days hanging out with friends in a coffee shop - well, he is divorced now.

Now, I doubt those particular woman (that you quoted) would be open to trying again with a man who can't provide his share financially, because in their eyes they've given it a try and been burned. But that does not mean a different woman might not be willing to give it a shot. Just remember that if someone does, you have to ask yourself, what are YOU doing to be a good, strong partner for her? You don't have to do everything on the list (I can't clean house worth beans and I don't, we hire that out (I DO earn money, I work part-time, but nothing close to half)), but you have to do enough to make it obvious that you are contributing more than your good looks and warm hugs to the relationship.

PS - the ones that go so far as to say they want a man who will support and shelter them are basically saying I don't care what you look like or what you act like; I will be your arm candy as long you can provide those two things. To me it almost sounds like saying "I'll sell myself so I don't have to work or worry." Some men want that. I don't get it, but so be it. That is a whole other world, so to speak, than the one we seem to live in. That is also very different from a woman tired of men who haven't tried to be a true partner in any significant way.

[/quote]

I do that every day :'(
why would they list a requirement list if they don't want everything on it. o.O I don't have good looks. I try to be emotionally supporting as I can though I don't know how or what to say some times

I try to contribute. money will never be a way I can even working full time I'll never have much in fact until bankruptcy the more hours i work the less i'll make. so even if they like look he has a job I'll date him, they will likely reject me when they learn how little I make. $150 or less a month depending on gas required to get there. though that's hard to say cause currently I get 150 for food stamps but working full time i'll lose it so I won't make any money and likely lose 200+ a month and just end up quiting cause that sounds like slave labor for me, i want to work to be able to afford stuff to enjoy life. likely to be this way for the next 30 years of my life. so Job/=/ money for me.

so imagine there's more like me. this whole he has a job, he must be able to provide for himself is false.

yeah I figured those ones are just being open that they want to be provided for and not work. some go even further and will state just that. I want someone to pay for my stuff and spoil me in exchange for "fun times"

I don't see any hope for me really and its quite depressing. no matter how hard I work i won't get anywhere. yet i try and tbh i don't know why I do.

tarantella64
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06 Jun 2014, 10:28 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:

tarantella64 wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

More reason why men shouldn't date while unemployed.

Quote:

The findings fall in line with the current study by Ohio State researchers. ?For men, not having a job increases the risk he will initiate leaving the relationship, and it also increases the risk women will leave the relationship,? says Sayer. ?Men are still held to an older standard than women and penalized by employers and stigmatized if they are doing what?s perceived as women?s work.?

http://healthland.time.com/2011/07/11/u ... o-divorce/

Right, but look at what the article also says, which is zero surprised to anyone who's had an unemployed husband/bf:

Quote:

With men culturally shouldering the role of primary breadwinner for their families, unemployment hits men particularly hard, as their self-esteem, an important factor in depression risk, is often contingent on their role as provider. ? In addition, as more men take on child-rearing responsibilities, they may feel inadequate and overwhelmed, fertile ground for depression.

So you have to ask how much of this has to do with the guy's inability to cope with unemployment and his own emotions about it, plus his trouble dealing with the fact that doing home/childcare is actually a ton of work and deeply disrespected. (Welcome to what it's like for women every day!) So he implodes, and the job search grinds to a halt and he's not really doing a serious job of taking care of the house/kids, either -- largely because he never noticed how much work it is and is leaving much of it out -- and the woman's now doing a good chunk of the home/childcare plus all the earning, AND living with a morose man who refuses to admit he's got a problem and get help for it, AND who receives every offer of help as criticism.

Yes, this is a good recipe for divorce. It also makes single motherhood look pretty good after a while. I'm telling you, it's about the attitude.

And when I think about it, that story above - which happens over and over and over -- shows what the problem is. You have a guy who's used to being a very privileged dude. He's treated like a man. And then he loses the job, and his life becomes much more like women's lives: more responsible for home and children, needing to work but being stigmatized for caring for home and children, getting no respect or pay for putting in all the hours doing that work. And his reaction is to collapse and mourn his ego. Whose house does he do this in? The house of a woman who's had to live with those conditions all along. A person not particularly privileged. It's like the rich guy losing his fortune and having to live in a poor building, and crying all day long because of the miserable low condition he's sunk to. Nope, he's not going to have many friends among his neighbors. And it says a lot about who he is if he just cries till the money comes back, beats feet out of there asap, and doesn't look back, rather than spending some of his time in that building looking around himself and asking, "Why are all these people treated like sh**? And what can I do about it?"

ETA: I get that for a lot of guys, the implosion's also about the fear that their wives will shun and shame them because they don't have jobs. But I also know that this kind of fear can be totally deaf to the wife saying, "Sweetie, I love you, it's just a job, it'll be fine, you'll find something." And then the guy goes on staring at this self-generated nightmare of "my wife will leave me" until all the rest above happens, and it really destroys the marriage.

It would help a great deal in those situations if the guys had some self-awareness about these narratives and understood that the fears were culturally generated and not helping him, and that it's good in those circumstances to talk to people who *don't* think that way, and understand it's not the only way to look at the world, and themselves, and their wives.

May I pm you about this if you don't mind and discuss my feelings with you? If no then that's fine.

Sure, of course.

hale_bopp
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07 Jun 2014, 12:01 am

sly279 wrote:

Don't you know the rule? Most of the time people never stick to their "lists" like.. hardly ever! You can't go buy these profiles as what people ACTUALLY do.

The_Face_of_Boo
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07 Jun 2014, 2:24 am

tarantella, it is weird to me that you equate society's view on housewife to society's view on househusband. From what I see, Housewife position is never seen negatively ans it's pretty appreciated, women say "I am a housewife" proudly and without any shame, while househusband becomes a subject of mockery, by men and women.

DW_a_mom
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07 Jun 2014, 4:11 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Boo, that varies not only by culture and country, but also by sub community. The stay at home dads in my direct community are extremely popular. They take on extra volunteer jobs at the schools and with the sports teams, and work super hard for the community. They treat their status as a privilege, a simple pragmatic decision: "she loves her career and makes more than I would, so this is what we decided."

Granted, getting into that mindset is more difficult if you can't find work as v. choose not to work, but I've seen it happen in the later case, too. Our long beloved crossing guard started doing it volunteer basis while unemployed.

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DW_a_mom
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07 Jun 2014, 4:17 pm

Sly279, there is ALWAYS hope. Figure out what you do have to offer and stay focused on that, instead of what you don't. Get out and volunteer. Be a part of your community.

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sly279
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07 Jun 2014, 10:52 pm

hale_bopp wrote:

sly279 wrote:

Don't you know the rule? Most of the time people never stick to their "lists" like.. hardly ever! You can't go buy these profiles as what people ACTUALLY do.

idk this seems to be one list they have stuck with based on my interactions with them. the first thing they will ask is what do you do for work. and the answer is usually a deal breaker for them. i don't post a list cause it doesn't matter to me, it prefernces though if i did it would be phrased as things i like in a woman not as you must have. I like playful women, but i don't say if you want to message me you must be playful.

then what is the point of the profile??? the point is to show someone what you're like and who you are, to limit down those who wouldn't meet your needs.

sly279
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07 Jun 2014, 11:03 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:

Sly279, there is ALWAYS hope. Figure out what you do have to offer and stay focused on that, instead of what you don't. Get out and volunteer. Be a part of your community.

i try to keep hope but

can't volunteer, that cost money due to me being on the far edge of town and all volunteer stuff being on the other side of the connected city. we have nothing in my area of the city except expensive grocery stores.

DW_a_mom
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08 Jun 2014, 1:53 am

sly279 wrote:

DW_a_mom wrote:

Sly279, there is ALWAYS hope. Figure out what you do have to offer and stay focused on that, instead of what you don't. Get out and volunteer. Be a part of your community.

i try to keep hope but

Then maybe you should create something.

There are always elementary schools looking for someone to read with kids, churches looking for someone to clean the windows, and so on.

Imagine this: When someone asks what you do, answering with talk of a volunteer job you are passionate about. Be interesting. You can explain that you are on SSI later.

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cubedemon6073
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08 Jun 2014, 4:32 pm

Quote:

Honestly, I don't even understand what you're saying here.

If he is to volunteer somewhere, then how is he creating something? What is he creating? To me this seems contradictory.

How does one be interesting? What do you mean by this?

What if one doesn't have passion for much of anything? He may be interested in things like philosophy but he has no passion.

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08 Jun 2014, 5:52 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:

Quote:

I think that she was trying to say that if no volunteer opportunities exist near him, he can make his own volunteer opportunities by asking around the community and seeing if anyone would like his help with things.

Regarding being interesting, I find that it is mostly about how you word things and explain, not what you actually do. To show this in practice, say he was washing windows at a church. He could either say "I wash windows at a church", or he could say "I volunteer a lot of my personal time to my church, by cleaning and assisting the pastors with manual labor. The work is quite difficult, but seeing the difference that I make in their lives is all the reward that I need". Maybe not the best example, but it shows how you can turn something boring into something that may capture someone's interest.

DW_a_mom
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08 Jun 2014, 7:12 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:

Quote:

Create your own volunteer opportunity. See a need and offer to fill it.

It is naturally interesting to a lot of people to have something you care deeply about that involves something more than just yourself.

Not everyone has things they are passionate about, but being passionate about something is usually something other people find interesting. As long as it is not an obsession and as long as it is not on an overly divisive topic.

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DW_a_mom
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08 Jun 2014, 7:13 pm

Stargazer43 wrote:

cubedemon6073 wrote:

Quote:

I think you answered it better than I did!

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cubedemon6073
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09 Jun 2014, 8:43 am

Quote:

Now, this makes sense. Why do people talk in the roundabout way DW_A_Mom did? I still don't understand how anyone creates anything all. How does one "create" an opportunity? What is the logical basis for this? I don't grasp this concept. To me, all DW is saying is to go around his area and volunteer his services? What is spectacular about that except having the desire to help others out and be a good person?

Quote:

Regarding being interesting, I find that it is mostly about how you word things and explain, not what you actually do. To show this in practice, say he was washing windows at a church. He could either say "I wash windows at a church", or he could say "I volunteer a lot of my personal time to my church, by cleaning and assisting the pastors with manual labor. The work is quite difficult, but seeing the difference that I make in their lives is all the reward that I need". Maybe not the best example, but it shows how you can turn something boring into something that may capture someone's interest.

To be honest, if someone talked to me in this way I would feel as though I was being bullshitted. I would feel like I'm being deceived and that you're promoting yourself as more than you really are. I don't like that and like Peter Griffin says in Family Guy "It grinds my gears." It is like calling oneself a Custodial Engineer instead of a Janitor or a Cleaner.

There is no shame in volunteering and there is no shame in washing windows, cleaning toilets and sweeping the floor. To disguise this and puff oneself up with flowery words as more than one really is to me is a form of deception by exaggeration. This is one of the things about my own country (USA) I can't stand and I have to hold myself back from saying to the person "Can we cut the BS please and tell me what you actually do?"

DW, that would not work for me because it would go against every fiber of my being to inner depths of my soul. What you're asking sly to do is to exaggerate which is a form of deception. Personally, it would cause inner conflict with me.

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