What are your thoughts on gay marriage?

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Flagg
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21 Mar 2007, 10:29 pm

sunnycat wrote:
I am a Christian, and although people may call me crackhead and delusional/illusional for it, I wish and aspire to conform to God's will and desire...

The thing is...however, the human situation is extremely complex and it seems that God is aware of it more than anyone else...like when Jesus told the adulterous woman, after protecting her from the people who wanted to stone her, something like 'I do not judge you, so go and do not sin again.' Then, Jesus went ahead and payed for the price of everyone's sin, including the adulterous woman's...
Another example from my personal experience is when I left my former church (I felt that I totally didn't fit in...but I do appreciate my experience there), although it was a difficult process, and could be viewed as a 'sinful' act (you know, not obeying and leaving your church...), I felt that God understood me and was supportive of me all the while. I felt that God was aware of my 'complex' situation.

Now, I'm not a theologian and I don't know the Bible very well, but I have been told that it is clearly stated in the Bible that God is not affirmative of homosexuality. But before I make a judgment, I would like to remember a piece of wisdom I learned from a pastor's sermon. (I think it was from a sermon CD by Dr. Timothy Keller. He's a great preacher by the way. I would highly recommend his sermons to anybody interested in Christianity.)
And it was that everybody lies but when someone else lies we don't hesitate to call them a liar, whereas when we ourselves lie, we acknowledge that we are complex human beings...

I think same view can be applied when I view homosexuality. The situation is complex and I would be arrogant to say that I have the ability to grasp it fully and make a judgment... Moreover, Jesus didn't judge the adulterous woman, which means He didn't judge homosexuality either. Then who am I to judge? Even if I accept that the Bible views homosexuality as sinful when I think about all the sin that I committed, and think about my own sinfulness, and how I was pardoned through grace...then I am left with little room to say anything.

Yeah, all this is based on the Christian doctrine so I suppose that many of you don't buy it.
Another view of mine is that, I acknowledge how extremely difficult it is to actually find a partner whom you are able to share your life with. (at least, it has been so with me) I wouldn't easily say that someone should not live with their partner or leave their partner because they are of the same sex. Of course, living together is different from marriage...hmmm...now that I arrive at this point I feel like I've been beating the bushes all the while.... :roll:

Anyway, this is how I would view homosexuality regarding my spiritual/religious side...that is that I would not make a judgment.
And personally, if I didn't have a Bible to ponder upon, I wouldn't find a problem with same-sex marriage...athough I am heterosexual...why shouldn't you and I live and let live...

(Oh, and there's another aspect to the whole issue that I would like to mention...that sexuality can get very destructive...spiritually, emotionally, and physically...whether it be homosexuality or heterosexuality it can be dangerous to treat it lightly...that's why even if within my own mind I feel there is no problem, I choose to resort to the Bible...)


Someone please check the tempature in Hell.


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Santa_Claus
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21 Mar 2007, 10:49 pm

Gay marriage is a right, if people who live out there want it, they should have it.



Santa_Claus
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21 Mar 2007, 10:52 pm

Flagg wrote:
Someone please check the tempature in Hell.

The whole hell idea is farfetched, I doubt if God were as merciful, all powerful and intelligent as the bible claims he would need a hell.



Flagg
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21 Mar 2007, 11:48 pm

Santa_Claus wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Someone please check the tempature in Hell.

The whole hell idea is farfetched, I doubt if God were as merciful, all powerful and intelligent as the bible claims he would need a hell.


It's a joke.

"(Blank) will happen when Hell freezes over."


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GenericBrandUserName
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22 Mar 2007, 9:02 am

As long as you're not bothering me or trying to force/coerce me into your lifestyle, I say do what you want.



Averick
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23 Mar 2007, 10:25 am

I think gay marriage should be legalized. Let's forget about the meaning of the word. Marriage. Stastically, I think the population would negate whether or not such an institution should be considered "Sacred/ Holy". Imagine how life will be lived in the next half of the century. Mathematitions expect the world population to hit about 10 Billion in the year 2050'ish. Now keep in mind that our world is supposed to only support roughly 2 billion max. Notice from the current world situation that population increase is not what the world needs. I say that gay marriage would be doing the world a favor... Curb the boom!! ! :D



Beno
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24 Mar 2007, 8:24 pm

GenericBrandUserName wrote:
As long as you're not bothering me or trying to force/coerce me into your lifestyle, I say do what you want.


You think gays and lesbians "force" and "coerce" people into the "gay lifestyle"? o.O



calandale
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24 Mar 2007, 8:29 pm

In prison.



Beno
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24 Mar 2007, 8:31 pm

calandale wrote:
In prison.


Doesn't count. Prison rape is nearly always committed by heterosexuals as a way of asserting dominance over other inmates and has nothing to do with sexual orientation.



Xenon
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25 Mar 2007, 10:03 am

Flagg wrote:
Santa_Claus wrote:
Flagg wrote:
Someone please check the tempature in Hell.

The whole hell idea is farfetched, I doubt if God were as merciful, all powerful and intelligent as the bible claims he would need a hell.


It's a joke.

"(Blank) will happen when Hell freezes over."


Image


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Feibel
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25 Mar 2007, 5:15 pm

From the many versions I have heard or read... The one I think/feel explains the Deuteronomio ( :roll: can't remember the name in English) said that it was forbidden for a man to lay with a man as if a woman, was because the jews were an extremely small group and they needed to defend themselves, needed to have people to fight, muscle to grow. In other words, they needed to procreate as much as possible; and homosexuality was then considered an attack against the needs of the people (government) and became a sin against God's directions.

Now, when I considered becoming a priest and dedicate myself to investigate and translate holy scripts, I heard many things that would make "christians" to clench their teeths. The people outside of the church is more "Pope-ist" than the Pope.

And even if there is a valid point to use the bible, do not misquote it, do not dare to edit or choose what to mention of what is God inspired, since that is a sin, trying to proclame that you are better than God and you will make a decision on where God or his/her/its prophets went wrong or needs to be INTERPRETED (Do you really believe you are better in talking to the human's hearts than the God you claim to adore?)

Include that to make a loan with gain, getting drunk, touch someone else when committed, swearing the name of God in vain, lying (even social little white lies), intollerance, envy, insulting, etc...etc...etc... are crimes against God and Humanity. What about wearing cotton and wool? I don't remember if it is in there or in another book.

=======

I am homosexual; I would like to be able to marry whoever I would like to.
I don't want to impose my "way of being" or my "perversion" unto anyone.
Homosexuality happens frequently and it is not unnatural.
Allowing the gay marriage won't destroy society as we know it nor will bring the Final Judgment Day faster.
It has a long tradition in many places, even US Native Americans.
Is not imported from somewhere since it happens everywhere.

The only thing I would like is to allow ME to decide who I want to benefit from my work, life and death. I don't want the government to tell me that because I have been "naughty" I cannot ensure my partner's future and that my property may end up being government's property because I don't have someone related to me that could get it. Just because there was no signed contract.


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geek
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25 Mar 2007, 6:20 pm

I think the quote you're looking for is Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Leviticus 20:13 is very similar, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

But Leviticus is the same book that says that eating shellfish or getting haircuts is an abomination, but endorses other practices, like polygamy. There are over 600 rules like that in the Old Testament, but we never hear of Christians campaigning for punishments for those who pick up sticks on the sabbath, even though that is likewise forbidden. Nor do we hear calls for laws compelling universal circumcision, or for allowing polygamy as a religious right. From most Christian perspectives, those laws were made obsolete by the teachings of the New Testament. John 8:4-7 is an example of that:

"And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, they say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned (Lev. 20.10, Deut. 22.22-24), but what sayest thou?
...when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

I would have thought that clear enough for anyone to understand, but people are always surprising me.



Feibel
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25 Mar 2007, 7:33 pm

Quote:
geek:
I think the quote you're looking for is Leviticus 18:22, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Darn! You are right! :D

Father Francisco might be turning around in his grave! He would die again due to my confusion. :(

Maybe I should read the Bible again. It's been a long time.

Thanks!

=========

Also, just quickly, Pope JP II, said in one of his Motu Proprio that the rules of the Leviticus still in place... and that MP was issued just some years ago.

Soooo... the magazines that promote "How to be better in the bed" are abominations and they are inciting to sin; since they don't mention a proper way to make sure the woman gets pregnant... Strange notion, isn't it? "10 ways to make sure you get pregnant when your husband touches you!"... I don't think it would be a good selling phrase.


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geek
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25 Mar 2007, 10:32 pm

Feibel wrote:

Also, just quickly, Pope JP II, said in one of his Motu Proprio that the rules of the Leviticus still in place... and that MP was issued just some years ago.


Ooh. I am not very comfortable with that, personally.

I have worn blends of different sorts of fabric. I have eaten fruit off of trees that were less than 5 years old. I have cut my hair and my beard. I have harvested crops completely, and not let fields lie fallow every 7th year. I have eaten leavened bread within a week of Passover, just as I have failed to perform the proper rituals on Rosh HaShanah, Purim, and other holidays -- never burned a single goat, lamb, sheaf of grain, etc. I have treated women the same, regardless of the time of month. I have sold land. I have charged interest on loans, and not forgiven all debts on the Jubilee (or even known when it was). And, should one or more of my brothers die, I am not really prepared to take on my sisters-in-law as additional wives.

Sounds to me like the Pope has a lot of work ahead of him. :wink:



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27 Mar 2007, 3:44 pm

I give you props Jorje! You've displayed quite the brilliant argument..



Vash_Wolfwood
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28 Mar 2007, 7:43 pm

I have no qualms about gay marriage, in fact, I'm all for it...