dianthus wrote:
It's a really nerve-wracking situation that can potentially turn dangerous. And a guy might be harmless and have the best of intentions, but it's hard for any of us to know that for sure. Too many times I have seen men change personality suddenly and become nasty when they don't get the response they expect. Even just a simple thing like not getting an immediate response when they say hello.
This is also why it's likely to end a friendship if you reveal that you want something more. It no longer feels safe to be friends under those circumstances. In the back of my mind I would always be wondering if they are going to bring it up again, are they going to try to kiss me or grope me one day when I least expect it, are they going to be harboring jealous resentment if I start seeing another guy?
All that said though, if I told a guy I didn't see him that way, it would mean exactly that. I just don't. It doesn't necessarily mean there is anything wrong with him or anything he could change to make me see him differently.
dianthus wrote:
First off think about what you're saying. "The closest I come is friends at most." Friendship is not a goal post on the way to dating someone.
I've read and heard that a lot of times, and still can't wrap my head around it. So, if you want to date a woman, you'd better make sure you don't accidentally become her friend. But, on the other hand, how can you approach her with this in mind without being a creep? There seems to be no way to have a chance at all, ever, with any woman; therefore, friendzone or creepzone, period. This also makes me think it's one of those rules meant to be broken, but only by the winners, who can afford it. Break it without being up to snuff and you'll suffer its full force.
dianthus wrote:
I believe this is why a lot of guys have problems finding someone, because they think this way. Whereas a woman is more likely to think, if I have a comfortable friendship with a guy, this is someone safe I can hang out with who is not going to hit on me or make things weird. So when you suddenly cross that line and say that you are in love with her, or want to date her, it will probably freak her out. It changes everything, and it can feel almost like a betrayal.
Considering most men who get particularly close to you, and who aren't in a relationship with someone else, will be physically attracted to you, especially if they don't know anything else about you in advance, I'd expect real friendship to mean, among other things, that you should have enough mutual trust for them to be upfront about it, and for you not to feel threatened or compelled to let them do anything to you that you don't want. If this is impossible, then I can see why so many people consider friendship between heterosexual men and women impossible, but I can't say I understand why it has to be.
I wonder why it seems so hard to establish a "we will only do what
both of us want" relationship. To me, this would be the only true friendship.
dianthus wrote:
This doesn't mean that you have done something wrong. You might get treated as if you did, and I am just trying to explain why that could happen. It's a difference in perspectives, where a man might see a friendship as a step on the way to having a relationship, a woman may see it as a different category altogether.
Guys refer to this as being "friend zoned" and suggest things you can do to change it. But realistically, most of the time the reason why you have a friendship like this with a woman to begin with, is probably because she just doesn't see you as a potential partner. Women generally do not make friends with men they are attracted to in the hopes of dating them. I'm not saying it never happens.
Probably because they just get approached, so they don't have to face the aforementioned dilemma.
dianthus wrote:
And sometimes feelings can change when people get to know each other better. But when a woman has deeper feelings or attraction for a man, she is more likely to keep a careful distance to avoid getting hurt.
When you say that women who go out for coffee with you are married or already have a boyfriend, this suggests to me that they see you as safe. I mean if they wanted an affair, they would probably hit on you pretty quickly, or else drop you if they thought you weren't up for it. Otherwise they are hanging out with you because they feel you are someone who would not jeopardize their relationship. I think this is a good thing. It means they see you as someone they can trust. NOT someone who is evil that they need to be protected from.
I know how much it hurts to get treated like a stalker. Especially when you truly care for the person and mean them no harm. It can really warp your perceptions of yourself and do your head in. I would not wish that on my worst enemy. But I have been on the other side of it too and had to completely distance myself from guys who wouldn't give up wanting to date me. It sucks either way. It's hard to lose a friendship with someone who wants more and then worry about what they will do or how they are going to feel about it.
If you have a lot of women telling you that you are not their type, I wonder if vice versa they are really YOUR type. You say you have asked a lot of women out and tried to expand your criteria beyond your preferences. Do you see something in these women that makes you feel they would be a good partner for you? I think if deep down you feel they are not really your type, they are going to sense that and they will probably feel the same way.
Maybe take some time out from it all to reflect on what you really do want in a partner. Think about what makes you see someone that way. I get the sense you are picking women who just aren't right for you or compatible with you for some reason. Perhaps because you believe so strongly that there is something wrong with you, you pick women who are wrong FOR you.
I hope you also realize the woman can come across as very arrogant and condescending from a naïve male point of view, even if she thinks she's just protecting herself.
_________________
The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.
02 Jan 2016, 3:21 am
