To all the bitter men

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Everyone has high standards including you and me. Just because someone ticks out a checklist doesn't mean that all women will suddenly jump, you need to think this through and listen to other peoples perspectives like I have done in the past and now, life isn't black and white.

Honestly I understand the pain of not only no relationship but even friendships, I've only recently been able to get along with two people that might turn into friendship in the future but you cannot blame others over this, we all have our preferences, our standards and as much as it hurts not everyone is going to be your friend, let alone your partner which is another level of trust and how much you like that person so relax, listen to people who know and take your time with people because that is what they are doing as well.

and assuming what women want is so attractive. Are you saying you would prefer for someone to date you out of pity or because they have no standards?

I can't imagine why I'm still single - don't men want the same thing? I really don't get why I'm still single to be honest with you. Maybe I'm just too straight laced or they think there is something wrong with me or think I'm not in their league. I have no clue.

Okay fair enough.

But these are not "high standards." These are BASIC simple human characteristics.

1. A decent sense of self-worth
2. The ability to connect and respond to others (may or may not include sexual experience; this may be tied into religious belief or personal beliefs so it can be a variable)
3. Mentally healthy

In no way, shape or form are any of these ASKING TOO MUCH of anyone in a partner. It's not like any one of these is asking for a gold plated sports car or making more than $100,000 a year lol.

I'm sorry if this is harsh, but if you think asking someone as a partner to have a basic healthy personality is 'asking too much' then consider that the problem is not them, it's you, and something you need to work on. End of story.

That's what I'm trying to tell you.

I am that guy already.

I am the positive guy, the guy working hard to improve his life, the guy who already tries to be so grateful, positive and content about what his life is like already.

But you can't just tell people with depression to 'just be happy'.

And just like you, I need to complain.

Guess where most men vent to feel better when they're feeling upset or frustrated?

It's the only place we can.

If I'm Mr. Hardworking McPositive 6 days a week, I think I'm entitled to spend the 7th complaining on a few internet forums about my troubles.

But I see it all the time. I see people react negatively to any male who dares complain online, ever.

It all goes back to the 'men must be tough, keep their feelings inside' argument.

It's funny more people nowadays are saying men shouldn't try to act tough all the time but when they finally talk about their feelings and troubles they are criticized and shamed. People react aggressively to them, call them a loser, make fun of them, etc.

They make assumpations.

Blah blah you're not entitled to a woman, you have to make an effort, you're not trying hard enough, you're desperate and trying too hard, your attitude sucks, no wonder no girl wants to ever be with you, you deserve to die alone for being so negative, you keep telling me you're a positive person in real life but women can smell fake confidence from a mile away, blah blah blah.

Personally I'm not conditioned to be in a relationship because of 'manliness'.

It's because I simply want to be in one. No need to over-complicate things. In fact I think many men, even the one's with good friends, simply want to be in one, badly.

I think in the short-term, men want a relationship quicker than women do.

Doesn't mean men love women more, just means women take longer to warm-up to a man, if she ever does.

As you already agreed before, men and women can rarely/never be 'just friends' without one person being attracted , usually the man to the woman.

What I've noticed is 95% of single, men in a friendship with a woman would be completely open to going on a date or having sex with his female friend if she was to ask, while for a lot of women it's VERY set in stone. There is zero attraction on her end unless she had a crush on him since the beginning of the friendship, otherwise she never was, is, or will be interested in the guy, but he'll always be interested in her.

Sooo many studies back this stuff up.

Most males develop feelings for a female friend in 6 months to 2 years.

More rarely, some women do develop feelings for a male friend back, but this typically takes longer for her to develop feelings for him, probably 2-8 years or longer, if at all.

I once saw one fellow on a forum say they were friends for over 10 years and were in their 30's and he's crushed on her after about 5 years.

I can almost guarantee for 90% of friendships between a young male and female in their late teens/early 20's, the male has feelings for the female and any who doesn't is already in a relationship, crushing on someone else, lying or hasn't developed feelings yet, but there's a 90% chance he will. Forget feelings, though, it's pretty much guaranteed he's physically attracted to her.

I'm uncomfortable opening myself up to anyone in general, including my one female friend because I've only ever been hurt in the past by others and so I'm guarded.

I do try to talk to what few male friends I have about 'feelings'.

It doesn't have to be some sensitive unmasculine crap, and I never really saw it this way either. Yeah, they're quick to shoot me down.

Not sure if it's because they don't want to hear me whine (even though I don't do it much and I'm ok with them doing the same thing), guys just don't talk about their feelings all that much, or both. Probably both.

That's not true, at least not for me. I would be happy to be with someone who I could relate to in those ways, just as long as I don't feel like I'm being used.

People are very arrogant in their 'advice', it always annoys me to see people whining that they're not being listened to. I am not sure any piece of advice has ever helped anyone on this forum since it's all "no sh*t" cliches like 'be confident' and 'improve yourself' or the enigmatic 'be interesting.' If you think your advice is on falling deaf ears then it's probably because it's oft repeated and not that deep of a thought. Pretty much all of it I know and is common sense but the problem is that it's all easier said than done and someone that isn't able to put themselves in the same shoes will not be able to understand.

Are there people on this planet that are less than? Are there people that should be ostracized? Are there people that deserve to be alone due to circumstances of their birth?

Have you considered that they are cliché because there is a truth to them?

Also coming to a forum full of people with social issues and expecting them to know what advice to give about social issues seem counterintuitive. Can you blame people for trying to help even thought they don't know the answers?

Advice is a show of care and consideration it's not like you have to follow it.

SHOULD. Never 'should' on anyone.

Seriously, yes, there are people on this planet that are less. Yes there are people who are ostracized. And yes, there are people who are alone due to circumstances of their birth. Is it right? No. But the fact remains. Yes, there are.

I can't tell someone how to NOT be autistic because I'm not autistic myself so I don't entirely understand the difficulties. I can only tell someone who is autistic what they're doing that is causing them to have difficulties. It's up to them to figure out how to change that behavior.

MY SO (who is HFA) used to be pretty bad socially, although he's gotten better. One of his things is he likes to correct grammar. He will listen to someone and nit pick one or two words that the person has said incorrectly. So rather than hearing and responding appropriately to the message he would only listen to the individual words and wait to talk so he could correct them. And this made him very unpopular with people. I pointed this out to him, that no one gives a crap about anyone's grammar, it's rude and to knock it off. He stopped doing that and he's better overall.

My point is that, is it right that there are some people who have less and are looked down upon? No. But surely you understand that life is not fair and that won't change anytime soon. So it's YOUR JOB to figure out how to best get along and change what you can to better fit in. If that means losing weight, stop eating so much. If that means you need to get a better job, get your butt to university or get some trade training. If that means you need tips on how to behave socially, find a class on speech delivery or something. But over and over what we see on these boards is people complaining about how difficult they have it, but make NO EFFORT to try to change to better fit in, because it's easier to make excuses than to do the work.

I don't care if people give advice, do what you want but it's kind of like the blind leading the blind I think. A lot of the time it's more this whining about other people venting and making their feelings known, "if you don't follow my advice you deserve to be alone." The people are essentially saying shut up I don't want to hear it anymore, your existence bothers me. It is a truth that people have very little tolerance for people like me, they just want you to shut up and take it. I don't feel it comes from a place of care or consideration all to often, there isn't anything to actually follow when it comes to 90% of the advice. 'Be positive!', yeah, okay, thanks.

You have no idea what effort people put in to change or fit in, that's exactly what I am talking about. It's ignorance and also arrogance to think that your 'advice' is so enlightened that it will fix people. Perhaps that's why so many young men on the spectrum have such issues with feminism, you have it on one hand this checklist of XYZ things you need before you are worthy of a relationship apparently but simultaneously get told that it's terrible wrong to commodify relationships and that it's about "connecting" with other people. So what is it? Does that only apply in one direction?

"ugh, find a class on speech delivery", thanks! Why didn't I think of that!

Most of the advice given here amounts to "stop doing that, it annoys me".

I can see what your saying but some people do want to help but there's only so much advice you can give on a forum like this where most people are socially inept on top of not knowing the situation.

That's fine then. If what you're doing is working for you, then keep on doing it. Because ultimately it's your life.

Not passive aggressive at all.

I should probably be more specific to say 'unsolicited advice' since there are still things people can ask other. It's just the cliche nonsense that is bugging me, 'be postive' 'why aren't you more confident?', 'stop whining', etc, etc. I think it would be wise for some people to stay in their lane of expertise.

It really doesn't matter, does it? Because you're the one living your life. If you are choosing to be miserable or misunderstood or whatever then that's your decision. It doesn't affect me or anyone else, for that matter.