Don't trust ANYTHING women say.

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OK, for people that take them seriously, most relationships end badly - by which I mean painfully, even if there is no malice on either side. I suppose it's not that way if it's casual, semi-random dating.




I don't know of any actual data either way. In its absence, one must rely on non-quantitative observations (as an anecdote: my uncle: 'I was married when I was your age.' me: 'yeah, and look how it turned out.').
You can't rely on others to define you, but you might still want companionship, to love someone and be loved back, etc, and feel bad about it if you don't have them.




If she was in love with me, and I wasn't, I would turn her down - even if she was in none of these categories.



I said nothing of the sort. I'm arguing for honesty, not for dating spineless men. And it's not just your problem, it makes life harder for men, especially men that have difficulties in reading non-verbal cues.




Let me give you an example: I know a guy who is head over heels in love with a girl (it's not just a crush, he really is in love) but he knows he has zero chance - she is taken for the long haul, and he knows it. That doesn't make him stop loving her, and it didn't prevent him from falling in love. I can understand his predicament, because when I got to know her I could feel myself being attracted to her in that way (she's not even my type in looks), and so have taken to avoid her altogether, to avoid getting emotionally attached to her. You can't love someone and not want her to love you back, but you can love someone you know there is no chance of a relationship with.

I asked Kevin-John out, and we've been going strongly for almost a year now.



And it couldn't be better. We seem to completely understand each other. And we have the added bonus of being able to totally gross out our siblings, which works great when we want privacy

AS runs through almost everyone in my mother's side of the family (which is the half I am in most contact with)


I'm sitting there as the guy in the store is counting said change, I quickly count it myself to protect me against that (without mentioning anything about it).


Just because someone is a pathological liar doesn't mean that everything they say is a lie, it just means they lie when it suits them to, and when they're not likely to get caught.


Yes, I do leave the house. The risks of being lied to are one of the risks inherent in living, and cannot be avoided. The best one can do is be vigilant against such people looking to lie and take advantage of that.


I guess I can apologize if I've insulted you in such a way. But I'm not going to sugar-coat such statements (aka lie).


You obviously haven't had your inner being devastated to the core because someone lied to you.

The worst part about all this is, owing to all the therapy I've been through, I've turned into one of these pathological liars myself. I can't seem to get through a day without catching myself blurting out a sarcastic statement or sugar-coating something or even a plain "I didn't do it". And the more I lie, the more I start to like it, and the power it can bring. It's like a drug addiction (even though I've never been addicted , and it's making me hate myself all the more for it.

There's irony in you, Toadofsteel. You are doing the very exact thing you claim to hate and despise in oter people...and you say you hate yourself for it, but you are still excusing the situation and making it seem like the world is full of liars, liars, and more liars. What if it is jist filled with people who are doing to for the same reasons that you are?

Stop it! Or I might go into a psychological coma... my world is breaking before my eyes...

a coma!! ok then...

5x4=25, entropy is a synonym for ketchup, and i hate thistles.
i really don't care if pugs is in a coma.

Ah saved by untruthiness, I love you Big Brother.

If she just wanted to be friends, accepting massages from you and sharing a bed was inapprooriate. Not all women are like this. What I don't understand is why this makes you feel worthless and suicidal. Lonely, perhaps, but there are others out there who play fewer head games.

Yes I know it makes me hypocritical to make such a statement. However, there's less liability on my part to make a general statement that "everyone lies" rather than "everyone tells the truth". I made the mistake of doing the latter throughout my young life, and people exploited that... an example being giving a term of sexual innuendo a completely different and false definition so they could humiliate me without my even noticing it Since then, it's been easier to just assume everyone is lying until their statements can be verified than to trust anyone (wikipedia helped me alot when it gained prominence, but that wasn't until high school for me). The only population that never lied to me were the other AS people in school, which is where I derive the statement that NT's are the liars.

I think it's rather insulting to men to say that they'll sleep with any woman who isn't
We'd get upset if they said that women were that shallow, why is it any different when women say such things about them?

After mulling this over for quite a while, I think I've found what was troubling me:

Inviting someone into bed with you can be fairly overt and direct, at least if there is any hint of romantic interest.

Climbing into bed can reasonably be taken as acceptance of the overt offer.

From that point, both parties can still reject the arrangement. It's possible there's been a serious miscommunication. In general, though, the social norm seems to be that there is an agreement to some kind of intimacy.

Maybe some simple rules:
If someone may have an interest in you, don't invite them into bed unless you're either prepared to go further or intend to cause them harm.
If someone may have an interest in you, don't accept an invitation into bed unless you're either prepared to go further or intend to cause them harm.

Not following these rules could reasonably be considered "reckless disregard".

Yes I do. I know I don't know what a person wants in a partner because everyone wants something different, be it a little out of the norm or way overboard.

Sure ya can. I've had some do that, and I find it unlikely they were all looking just for sex. That being said, you're "be a man" line because AS spectrum men "don't have the guts" is silly, because most of what NT men do has very little in common with "guts" or making the "first move". I think this presents it in a much better light.

zee wrote:

I suppose so, but it you dont want anything sexual with someone ist NOT a good idea to send mixed messages like that!
We ALL know what people do when they climb into bed with each other.



Getting physically close(er) to someone is a very big hint zee. I think you know that even though you may not acknowledge it. Women are often very bad with words when it comes to such encounters. They expect the guy to just pick up on what she wants.Actually ASKING her is considered very clumsy and is more or less a faux pas.

So you consider the remainder of your family to all be liars, and thusly don't trust them at all? Your own flesh and blood? I realise there are some screwed up families out there but they usually have a set precedent.



I realised this one was a bad example after I posted it, because I too count my change quickly as well, it's just common sense.



No, you're just going to make blanket, descriminatory statements against almost the entire world.



Wanna bet?

I've fallen in love a few times in my life; the girl who holds onto the biggest part of my heart at this point - and I've never verified this because I think ignorance is bliss - may have been lying to me the entire time. I'm not sure anything she ever said to me was true, whether she ever loved me. My most significant relationship to date may well have been one giant lie.

But presuming that it is true - does that make all NTs liars?

No it damn well doesn't. That makes my ex girlfriend a liar and a b***h and a cow who can go to hell. She by herself does not represent the entirety of those without Asperger's syndrome.

You never directly addressed what I said, namely that this is the same jaded attitude that anybody takes when they've been hurt in the past and for most people, they get over it, and it passes on. You simply haven't got over it yet.

I'm sorry if someone violated your trust, hurt you, broke your heart. But that happens to all of us. And honestly, I think it's a good thing, because most people will have multiple relationships in their life and learning that they don't all end well, that it hurts sometimes, learning how to get over it, is a valuable life skill.

Ditto for school. I hate those people who bullied me at school, they are the scum of the earth, and I have infinite respect for the one of them who actually made the effort to apologise to me at the prom. But I also owe them a lot. Without that bullying, I wouldn't be the man I am today, I wouldn't have become myself, I wouldn't have learned to deal with pisstaking - and learned the very subtle differences between friendly joshing with people you like and vindictive pisstaking from people you don't - and I wouldn't be as strong as I now am. I have the ability to completely ignore the ridicule I can often get in the street from the British equivalent of white trash, the people we call chavs. But even chavs aren't all like that.

Basically, you are descriminating. You are prejudiced. Hell, you're damn near a bigot. And that is one of the things I hate most in the world.



Better yet, you're also a hypocrite, although at least you admitted it.

Yes, men usually learn from experience that they have everything to lose by asking directly, it will most likely annoy her and you can't trust the answer you get. Thus it seems we're always to blame; whether we are so 'stupid' as to actually ask or if we fail to read her mind correctly, it's always our fault, it's never hers.

*sigh* EXACTLY! Thats what really pisses me off about women's behaviour and in particular what zee has been saying in this thread! I dont think that women are hardwired to be this way; I really think that always blaming men-EVEN IF its clearly the womans fault is a learned behaviour. Thats what I wont all YOU women here to get through your heads:STOP blaming men for everything! Take some f*****g responsibility for your OWN misgivings and mistakes when it comes to this sort of thing.
I wonder if this is somehow a byproduct of feminism-a lot of women(Especially the younger ones)are very adamant about their victim status which conferrs a sense of entitlement. Now they can scapegoat men for whatever problems they have in relationships and sex and if a man speaks out about his problems they can just put the blame on him no matter what.Way to go ladies.....