Nice Guys and Love, what's your take on the issue

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oh man, i remember some of my female friends going "aghh i haven't had any sex in two weeks"...i was pretty unsympathetic and was like "well i've been in a pit of depression and self woe and can't even approach a suitable female, for about a year..." that sure opened their eyes...lol x

I am an average-to-good-looking female (no, you can't tell from my avatar).
I'm a little odd, but hold a good job, am funny, and cute, and would probably be considered a catch. Maybe not the catch of the century, but I've never had problems getting dates when I wanted them.
My fiance is the quintessential "nice shy guy". He's not sexy in a stellar way, is in no way domineering, and does not make oodles of cold hard cash. He's an unpublished science fiction writer. A dork, even. I met him playing an online video game.
What attracted me to him was his authenticity and our compatibility. I can communicate with him like no one else. I trust him. We understand each other. That is all. As all of the other women on here have stated, I am not attracted to domineering jerks., and there's my example.

But do you know any single women who appreciate the same qualities as you do? I doubt it.

I'm a nice guy - polite, respectful, et cetera, though not lacking in wit or confidence.

I'm also a 24-year-old virgin.

I have no real authority to speak about how women think, seeing as how I'm not a woman, but I decided to contribute the only datum that I had.

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When you hear "nice guy" they basically mean weak man. Where women go wrong, is when they reject a strong man who treats women well and is honest, because they think he is boring, and there is no drama to keep them interested. There is a big difference. Also, when they say women like "jerks" and women say they just want a guy who is "confident".... well, confidence doesn't go very far. You have to be a womanizer alcoholic to attract these sorts of girls. The world is just f****d right now...

The thing about AS guys is, we are honest. So it doesn't matter how confident we are, we are true blue and that doesn't cause fighting and drama, ergo most women (at least young women) have no interest in us. Being honest and not a womanizer drastically reduces the # of women who will show any interest in you. Adding AS on top of that is the nail in the coffin.

There are a few exceptions, but I think if we want to date women under 30, we have to go for very unattractive women. We might be able to keep it going with them if they think there is no way they can do better than us.

Sorry to be so cynical, but this is what I have concluded from my experiences and observations.

Yesssssss! Someone's summed things up with pinpoint accuracy. Couldn't have put it better.

NOTE TO Space: (I read your comment after writing mine) If a girl thinks a guy is boring, maybe they made a mistake, but the impression must have come from somewhere. And so I get the impression it's wrong for a girl not to go out with a guy cause he's boring. Would YOU like to go out with a boring girl? Think on it, please. And remember also that different people do get bored by different things. So girls might find chatty guys more interesting than quiet guys and vice versa. And onto my original comment....

I personally am not interested in your definition of a "nice guy" because they're boring. I don't want to be the "entertainment" for some guy who'll sit around and perhaps grin vapidly at me from time to time. My advice for that sort of nice guy? Grow a brain. The whole "nice guys come last" bullcrap is an excuse for guys who like to leech off girls for entertainment while they consider "being nice" is more than enough to contribute to a relationship. Those type of guys are too lazy, or too self righteous to bother to extend themselves more than that.

I also hate as*holes, and there's no way in high heaven or hell I'd ever consider dating one.

I like nice guys with a PERSONALITY who'll actually contribute to the conversation and be interesting to talk to.

I can be "nice" any day with very little effort. And personally I'm sick of being the interesting pretty funny witty girl that the "nice" guy can sit googly eyed and stare at all night to his ease and personal enjoyment with the occasional compliment thrown in, "You have beautiful eyes." ...Half an hour later... "You're really funny." etc.

And I do know I've left out a certain type here, which is shy guys. My first boyfriend could be a bit of a shy guy at times, but when you talked to him one on one, he never ran out of interesting things to say, or witticisms. To the shy guys out there - you can't use it as a crutch! If you're not the best in big party situations, then use your brain and don't try to meet girls that way. Go to a more quiet environment, and try chatting to girls one on one. If you're too shy even to do that, then you'll really have to work on it.

Also, the other reason why the (again according to your definition, not mine) "nice guy" always comes last, is because they suck up to the girl to the point where it gets ridiculous. Girls do like to be complimented, but only when they particularly DESERVE it. Being overly suck up can make a girl feel REALLY uncomfortable. How would you like it if some girl came up to you, and constantly staring into your eyes, complimented every aspect of your physique and personality they could think of (even the less complimentary parts)? Would you too start to get an itching, burning desire to run for the hills?

Yeah, they may increase their chance of success from 0.001% to 0.005%!

Oh, and if you're going to insult me for being "boring," next time don't turn around and give me "boring" dating advice as well.

Lol well if you think my dating advice is boring (which it probably is lol), then that's great! You're certainly entitled to your opinion (which was the point I was trying to get across in the first place)

And I certainly don't think it's "wrong" for you or indeed anyone to have a girlfriend, but you can't expect one to just fall into your lap like a bag of sweets in return for being nice! That's all I'm saying. It's all very well to be nice, but you need more if you want to be more attractive to girls. And I think that applies to girls as well.

I didn't mean to insult you personally (I know I come across a bit strongly, but this topic frustrates me) I'm sure you're sick of hearing my boring dating advice (Like I have a great track record anyway!) so I'll try to make it short. What I mean is that being "boring" is not an innate quality in anyone. Nobody's a boring person unless they choose to be, or unless they're too shy or they don't realize to open up and share parts of themselves with other people. I find (in my experience, i can't speak for everyone) the "nice guy", to make it clearer, defining a nice guy as generally one of those guys who tends to spend a lot of time complimenting women and catering to their needs, thinking that is all women want, and then doesn't contribute his own thoughts and ideas and opinions and personality to the conversation/future relationship, and gets annoyed when a woman doesn't fall into his lap.

On second reading I think SPACE made a point when he said :


PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject:
"When you hear "nice guy" they basically mean weak man. Where women go wrong, is when they reject a strong man who treats women well and is honest, because they think he is boring, and there is no drama to keep them interested."

I disagree about use of the word "drama" though, I personally find a guy boring when they don't have any interests or anything interesting to say or contribute to conversation (and compliments and being nice don't count!). Equally, I find a girl boring if they're the same. It might not be politically correct, but it's life. So sue me!

I'm new to this board, but if I may contribute something to the discussion, I'd like to offer a different perspective on this idea that it seems a lot people have that someone who allows other people's wishes to override their own is a "pushover" and "weak." I find that that sort of attitude incredibly offensive and I'll explain why.

I was born in a South East Asian country where Buddhism was the dominant religion, and at a very early age I was taught the core ideas of Buddhism, which includes the principle that desire is the cause of all suffering. Related to that is the idea that to always be thinking in terms of "I want this. I want that. I this. I that. I. I. I. I. etc." was to be morally weak. A morally strong person was meant to always take joy in doing things for others. Well, as a kid I took those teachings very seriously. So seriously that in ever since the age of 5 or so I have never said to my parents that I ever want anything. Then I migrated to Australia at the age of 11. Well, talk about culture shock. Here everybody's always I want this and I want that. Of course, the same attitudes of people here (and apparently of most females when looking for a mate) to think of the nice well-meaning people who are just trying to be good people as "pushovers" were prevalent in the schools I was put into. Let's just say that it f****d me up. Kids take advantage of kids that show any sign in their eyes of submission. I didn't understand at the time that there were power games being played, or rather, I did sense it but ignored it because the drive, the conditioning to be a moral person that was instilled in me told me to suck it up and be strong and continue trying to be good regardless of however cruel people might be. I simply trusted that everything will be all right in the end so long as I followed what I was taught. Now, I can see that that was the totally wrong thing to do. The world doesn't work that way.

Anyhow, if I may change anybody's perspective on this at all.. the next time you see a person you see as a "pushover", please, please, please don't dismiss them as idiots or weaklings. They may just be trying to be good people and having the world take a dump on them for it. It is true, that nice guys, or more accurately, nice people finish last. The world rewards the aggressive and the takers. It pays lip service to the givers and then treats them like "losers" and discards them after taking all that can be had. If you are female, and if you can be a strong enough person to give them your love and allow them time to grow and flourish, and to regain trust in people again, you'll have that genuinely good man that you've always wanted. Confidence can be given to people. Goodness cannot be. Find a good person and give them confidence. Don't find a confident person and try to make them good.

Thankyou for your comment, kburman, very insightful. I must say I agree with you on many points. You seem like a nice guy, but with your own ideas and personality - the type of nice guy I like.

(I sound very switchy swatchy don't I?)

I do like nice guys and I don't like as*holes. I think a lot of my commentary comes from the supposedly "nice guys" who use niceness as an excuse to use the girl for their personal entertainment. It sounds odd, but I can't think of any better ways to explain this.

I'm sick of being some sort of pretty chatty girl entertainment for guys who expect it from me as their due and think throwing in a compliment here and there, or listening with a smile on their face is all they need to contribute to the conversation. It's tiring and disheartening. Yes. And I really hope I haven't been a thread killer from coming off too strongly. Sigh.