Why do they marry them?

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QFT



Man and woman and I think you make a very good point here. It's disconcerting that so many people get married without properly knowing each other and maybe even themselves. It would take a miracle for such marriages to survive and I'm glad to hear yours did

And strong character is a huge key.

Some people live and die without really knowing themselves.

It actually seems to happen a lot, I always wondered how is that working from a existential/meaning of life POV. But I think you believe in reincarnation and if so it might be easier for you to come to terms with something like this.

Some people don't believe in the existence of a 'true self' in the first place. Either way, this is L&D not PPR.

LOL sorry for derailing, it was indirectly related to the subject.

I don't mean to be rude, but I couldn't disagree with you more, @starygrrl. Your perspective seems to be that learning what pleases your mate is an impossibility. Why is that? If your NT partner would like to receive a compliment on her outfit on a special occasion, why is that impossible to learn to do? If she'd like to hear, "I love you," more often than never, why can't an Aspie partner learn to say it? If it's important to have dinner as a family every evening, why can't an Aspie buy a watch with an alarm - just in case he gets distracted by his work, and loses track of time?

You're telling me that an Aspie who could tell you everything there is to know about rock formations in the desert or fish in your local pond couldn't possibly catalog this type of information about his/her partner? Clearly, the answer is not intellectual incapacity, so I'm left wondering if the issue is a lack of interest? A lack of priority? A lack of desire to do so?


Again, totally disagree. I'm not expecting an Aspie to suddenly be emotionally intuitive about his/her partner's needs. How about asking your partner what's important to him/her? You keep talking about communication, but it seems like your model of communication is one-way: the NT should learn all about Asperger's, then modify his/her expectations and behaviors in order to accommodate their Aspie partner. When is the Aspie partner expected to listen, modify, accommodate? Because it seems like that's what's missing in your relationship model: the idea that a relationship is a two-way street.


I don't hate to break this to you, but your opinion is only your opinion, and not fact. How do I know this? Because I know Aspies who do exactly what I've suggested. I know Aspies who do adapt certain behaviors to their partner's needs - absolutely. I know a woman who has catalogued what she estimates to be 1000's of facial expressions, in part so she can socialize more easily with her husband's co-workers. Does it mean that it's now possible for her to intuitively sense another's mood? No. Does it means she enjoys these events? I don't know - I don't think so. Building this database of facial expressions didn't turn her into a social butterfly. But it did make it easier for her to handle these situations in a way that's less stressful for her, and benefits her husband as well (a prime example of a compromise that works for both partners).

I know an Aspie male who's wife has been diagnosed with a chronic condition. He has adapted his own behavior/expectations to accommodate these changes in his wife's health. Was that easy for him? No. He's your typical Aspie when it comes to routine: he likes routine - he finds it comforting. It caused him anxiety and stress to deal with the situation, but he dealt with it. He learned a new set of behaviors, and over time, those behaviors became his new routine, and the foundation for his new way of dealing with his wife. According to you, those behaviors are impossible - and yet - there they are. No so impossible after all, huh?

That's your theory. And here's my theory on why it's easier for NT men/Aspie women than it is for NT women/Aspie men. NT men typically don't want to be bothered with women's emotional issues; they don't want to talk things out; they don't want to guess; they don't think about their relationship endlessly; they want to be told what needs to be done to keep their woman happy, and as long as it's not too weird or inconvenient, they're happy to do it. Aspie women don't typically play emotional games - they're straightforward about their needs. They pretty much want to know what needs to be done to keep their man happy, and as long as it's not too weird or inconvenient, they're happy to do it. It's really not that complicated.

Again, no. Say it as many times as you'd like, but I know too many people whose very relationships disprove your perspective.

Well, thanks for the condemnation, @starygrrl. The posts in this forum (at least the ones that I've read over months and months) do not support your perspective. Most of the NT women who post here are desperate to make their relationships work, but they get very little to no cooperation and/or information from their Aspie partners. That's why they're here - looking for answers.

Again, confusing what is impossible and what is inconvenient is the self-limiting flaw in this line of thought. Changing the physical structure of your brain isn't possible - an Aspie will always have a disability. However, it is possible to change certain behaviors, thought patterns, knowledge levels, expectations, attitudes, and priorities.. From my perspective, the difference between Aspies in successful relationships and those who can't seem to make any relationship work is expectation (they know that relationships require compromise), effort, and honesty. IMO, Aspies would be a lot less frustrated and a lot more successful in relationships if they could grasp that.

Unfortunately, there are just some things that some NT partners will not understand. They may lack the capacity to understand, just the same as aspies lack the capacity to meet some impossible NT expectations. I've been blessed with a very understanding and cooperative NT husband who knows that if I cannot do something, it is only because I truly cannot do it. He is secure enough in my love to know that I would happily do anything for him, just as he would for me. Life has thrown us some curve balls and one thing we have learned is that we come out swinging together at the ball, not at each other.

I think aspies would be a lot better off in relationships where they could be themselves and not have to put on some giant personality facade.

Perhaps aspie men who are not sensitive to other's emotional needs should just avoid women who have strong emotional needs and instead look for a female with a cooler, less emotional, more businesslike personality.

It could just be that these problem NT/AS pairings we see on the board are very incompatible. When you are an aspie, it does take a very long time to meet someone truly compatible with you, as being an unusual person does cut off your dating options.

The businesslike personality scares me.

I would rather go for the less emotional and less needy , but not businesslike.

Actually quite a bit is supporting my perspective. They get no cooperation or information from thier aspie partners because they go in with the same mistaken ideas that you have.

You are really great at proving my point over and over and over again. The very fact is the things that somebody with autism finds important are VERY different than a NT partner. It proves how little if anything you really know of people on the spectrum. Have you noticed how many people on the spectrum who have said I am dead on with my assessments. You are not getting any back up here from people on the spectrum for a reason. I am being quite honest there is a reason why aspies don't catelog these things in the same way, and this is something NT partners will have to deal with. We are hyperfocused on our interests, and things outside our interests may not play as large of a role. There is also excutive functioning issues going on here as well. Because many of the things you are saying are emotionally important. I can go on and on here, but it is clear to me you don't grasp any aspect of being on the spectrum, read Congratulations! Your Kid is Strange, because it is clear you do not understand even the basics. Right now you proving my point over and over again. You have absolutely no grasp of people on the spectrum and are attached to these foolish ideas that certian things can change.

I am doing this because I am realisticly seeing what is going on, which obviously you can't, because like many NT women who come here to complain the whole being on the spectrum and what it means seems to be beyond your comprehension. It is not to hard to see what the hell is happening since I am as probably as far removed from the situation as possible. But you are dead on right with regards to why the AS female/NT male relationships by in large work. Maybe it would help alot of NT women to see that there is a benefit to this structure, but I sincerely doubt this, because like I said you have expectations that do not match up with reality on what a person on the spectrum can and cannot change. Accepting certian parts of a person as central to who they are seems to be something you are incapable of, you think everything can be compromised. At least you get that one thing, because it is abundently clear you don't get people on the spectrum in general. But the reason why I am critical is the total lack to put two and two together.

Also with regards to what you are putting forth, it is not that we are incapable of physically caring for somebody who is sick, it is the fact we find it extremely difficult to relate to somebody on an social-emotional basis. The two are entirely seperate things, one requires sympathy and the other empathy, and most people know we are perfectly okay on the sympathy front. Those two things are very very different, and you still illustrate it even further why you are simply not getting this entire thing. You are expecting us to change on a social-emotional level. We simply place importance on different things, but it is extremely difficult to understand the social-emotional needs of somebody not on the spectrum.

So let me lay out the scenario for you:


The compliment and social reinforcements are important to you, but truth be told an aspie may not even notice it. If anything being on the spectrum is honesty and bluntness to a fault. If it is not really seen, it is not worth mentioning, so yes, it is not worth mentioning. But here is my advice if you want a comment on it, ask for it, just don't always think you will like the answer, it may not be nice and it may not be a compliment. This is just not in an aspies nature.


We are not mind readers, you should repeat that over and over. In fact this may be more complicated, because the truth may sting even more, it may not be said because it is not even be true. If as you are saying these women are desperate to make it work, the guy on the spectrum may not love her any more. In fact even fishing for this is problematic. This is just not how aspies operate frequently, they will say it when it is time to and when they mean it, not necessarily because the other partner wants to hear it, that requires empathy and lying to appease the other person. The real truth of the matter is thier mind is probably some place else to even think about it.


Is it important to you? Truth be told NT sentimental rituals don't have much value for aspies. We do things out of habit. Truth be told, the importance of this may be for NT, but not much for the person on the spectrum. Just because you percieve it to be important does not make it such. The same goes for any other social rituals that you NTs find important, like weddings, funerals, family parties, and I can go on and on. I call it a social veto for a reason, and frequently I tell my partner I need to be on my own. The social veto is a no compromise thing too, the NT partner has to accept I will not always be there no matter how important it is to them. But you know what my partner has accepted that, and has learned to adapt and knows accepting that I need my space, results in a significantly better time when we are together and when I am up for being social. The reality is this is where people on the spectrum are like cats, we are best doing social things, on our terms, no other peoples. And yes, this includes family dinners. It is better not to break hyper-focus, than force a person on the spectrum out of it.

I can go on with other little things, but to me it is pretty clear you do not grasp being on the spectrum means and how little room there is for change the things you think can be changed. You are sorely mistaken.

The truth is many people on this board are not in relationships, and don't have much of an interest in being in a relationship. They rather go home and do thier own things and focus on thier interests, rather than worrying about a relationship or maintaining it. They are probably better for it.

Last edited by starygrrl on 03 Mar 2011, 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Hopegrows, no offense, you are fooling yourself. I am not saying that some behaviors cannot change, meltdowns for example can be reduced, but that often requires recognizing what causes them and eliminating said causes of stress. That again, has to be entirely identified and dictated by the aspie and not questioned. The priorities of the NT take a back seat to reduce this behavior. Is being at family events causing said problems, well...guess what, they will not attend family events any more (for me I don't speak to my family anymore). We often have to adapt ourselves significantly just to manage and reduce stress, and I don't think you quite grasp how significant those adaptations have to be. The truth is many people on the spectrum have a hard time managing this, or talking about it. Its not easy to verbalize in many ways and takes a considerable amount of thought. Compromising these situations to much, while may be possible for a short time, may eventually lead to negative long term effects. It is like trying to make a gay person straight, it simply does not work that way.

Then again, it is abundently clear from your failures reflect your flawed attitude. That aspies can change things that are central to who they are, compromising certian aspects of thier personality and who they are, makes things worse for them and causes significant stress, which in turn causes meltdowns and shutdowns. Compromise goes so far, and the things you are speaking about often cannot be compromised for an aspie. Then again I am in a very good relationship with a partner who gets this and you have been divorced twice learning nothing from your previous relationships from people on the spectrum. You are sorely mistaken. While a relationship is based on partially on compromise and hard work, it is also based accepting a partner for who they are and recognizing and accepting the things they cannot change. People who demand compromise on parts of them which they cannot change are the ones who like you, often end up in failed relationships. Like I said it is extremely obvious you know nothing about being on the spectrum and have not learned a damn thing from being with people on the spectrum. Instead you keep these foolish ideas in your head.

You think you can change things which are at the heart of being on the spectrum. You can't.

Last edited by starygrrl on 03 Mar 2011, 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I think it's a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack, where most people can just get on okay with hay.

Uhh, I don't want to throw any more fuel on any bonfires, but I'm not convinced this is true. I keep looking at studies that claim physical structure changes are possible. In fact, I'm pretty sure that that's what happens when you change a habit or a behaviour; you actually etch a new neuronal 'groove' into the physical brain structure.

I wish I was more certain on this point, but I'm not.

This is true, but it often takes years of music or meditation to effect it in a way that is beneficial for somebody on the spectrum. For example I pick up on vocal intonation, that is a change.
This is kind of complicated, because these changes only happens with significant dedication.