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Kezzstar
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12 Jan 2013, 5:49 pm

I feel like I'm being off-topic here, even though it IS relevent:

Ever notice how "Nice Guys/Girls" think they're entitled to the hottie, and but will completely ignore anyone else? I just remember this "Nice Girl" at school who would always do this sort of thing to the popular boys, while not noticing some of the more interesting blokes (admittedly, one of whom was a "Nice Guy"...I shudder at the thought of what would happen if they'd ever got together) lower on the pecking order (she wouldn't even be honest friends with them. She completely ignored them or even scorned them). Not that many of these blokes would have given her the time of day, mind you. They weren't stupid lol, and soon had really lovely girlfriends (some of these couples are still together to this day).

Anyway, woe was these boys if they dared turn her down romantically! She'd say some of the vilest things about them (and I think one or two of them got pulled up to the principals office because of her lies), it was really quite sad. She moved away a while back, hopefully she's grown up a little since.


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Boxman108
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12 Jan 2013, 5:55 pm

^^I've noticed that, I suppose, but I don't think it's exclusive to any one type of person. I think a lot of people do that. Personally I don't really go by any kind of "pecking order" or "leagues"; I think near anyone is worth getting to know regardless. I guess it is a part of why I don't rule out friends as potential girlfriends as I feel that would not be fair to them or to myself.


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Kezzstar
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12 Jan 2013, 6:05 pm

Boxman108 wrote:
^^I've noticed that, I suppose, but I don't think it's exclusive to any one type of person. I think a lot of people do that. Personally I don't really go by any kind of "pecking order" or "leagues"; I think near anyone is worth getting to know regardless. I guess it is a part of why I don't rule out friends as potential girlfriends as I feel that would not be fair to them or to myself.


We all have our favoured types, no question about that, but going for people soley for their status is a bit icky in my book. Which is what this girl was doing.

And then there's falling for someone who you'd never expect you'd be attracted to at all and thinking "WTF?" and wondering what is wrong with you lol


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Kjas
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12 Jan 2013, 6:48 pm

MCalavera wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
I don't have access to the full details of that study you linked to, but it seems like they were doing a study on "relative" altruism rather than on what we're supposed to be discussing within the context of this thread. Anyway, altruism is an abstract and, therefore, can have several meaningful definitions (just like intelligence and love and so on). While the study may be looking at one definition of altruism, I'm looking at a more philosophical definition of it.

ok well, back to the subject of the thread, some people do good things for friends with no expectation of reward from the other person, which would be altruistic within that context. so altruism ultimately can exist within that context.


Do you consider good feeling to be a reward?


At least for me personally I can say there is no "good feeling" as a result of doing something others consider "good".
It simply doesn't exist for me - although I hear from others that it does for them.


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Growlithe
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12 Jan 2013, 10:09 pm

I woudn't make it as a "bad boy". I'm small and have a baby face and I don't have a deep-manly voice. Girls would probably just roll their eyes at me.


Looks like I get to be a nice guy. :D



billiscool
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13 Jan 2013, 6:10 pm

aren't nice guy just a bunch of unattactive nerdy guy who thinks if he nice to some ladies, she will end up dating him.
and how come nice guys are never good looking, cool guys either?

here what I think these so-called nice guy are:
jimmy is a geek and looks like crap, and he smells too but he is always helping his fellow female student but
they hate him because he stinks and is ugly, but he's a nice guy



Kezzstar
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14 Jan 2013, 2:03 am

Actually, I think the "Nice Guy/Girl" and the "Jerk" are really the exact same kind of people, they both manipulate their victims into giving them what they want (sex), however seeing as the "Nice Guy/Girl" doesn't have the physical qualities of the "Jerk", they just need to take a different approach.

Geniunely nice people have better things to do with their time.


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BlueMax
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14 Jan 2013, 2:31 am

billiscool wrote:
aren't nice guy just a bunch of unattactive nerdy guy who thinks if he nice to some ladies, she will end up dating him.
and how come nice guys are never good looking, cool guys either?


I think they get classified as something else.... not sure what. "Winners"? "Awesome guys"?

I wonder if genuine good guys who are not manipulating girls into guilt-sex/love deserve a classification too...



The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Jan 2013, 3:21 am

BlueMax wrote:
billiscool wrote:
aren't nice guy just a bunch of unattactive nerdy guy who thinks if he nice to some ladies, she will end up dating him.
and how come nice guys are never good looking, cool guys either?


I think they get classified as something else.... not sure what. "Winners"? "Awesome guys"?

I wonder if genuine good guys who are not manipulating girls into guilt-sex/love deserve a classification too...


A hot guy can get away with it; he has to be double Nice Guy in order to be labeled so.


Also women approach him; he doesn't have to use the Nice Guy way.



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14 Jan 2013, 6:16 am

Kezzstar wrote:
Actually, I think the "Nice Guy/Girl" and the "Jerk" are really the exact same kind of people, they both manipulate their victims into giving them what they want (sex), however seeing as the "Nice Guy/Girl" doesn't have the physical qualities of the "Jerk", they just need to take a different approach.

Geniunely nice people have better things to do with their time.

this is true. very good insight.

about the discussion regarding how looks play into this... if it was that much about looks then all of the good looking guys on WrongPlanet would have success no matter what method they tried. since that isn't true, they are proving your theory bogus. it's about more than just looks a lot of the time.


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billiscool
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14 Jan 2013, 10:49 am

so, wait. some here are saying, that guys act ''nice'' to get women to have sex with them.
Ok, so should these ''players'' be classified as ''nice guys'' aren't they always the ''smooth talking''
''hot'' guys that are always getting women in bed with them and then dumping then the next day.

At least the nice guys actual spends time with the women, and actual does things for her (I guess to have sex,
but isn't that goal for many guys anyways) but the ''player'' type just bang and leaves.

But here where the difference lies:
the player: is good looking and very ''smooth talker'' ,and seen as tough
the nice guys: is a dork, unattractive, wimp.

so,when an ugly, dorky guy trys to be nice to get a woman to sleep with him(because he can't do by looks or charm)
he gets called for it.
but when an ''hot'' guy does the same thing, no women complain about it



Boxman108
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14 Jan 2013, 11:04 am

I don't think it's fair to say sex is the ultimate goal for every or even most males. Never mind those that are asexual, but I doubt there are too many men who are only interested in women because of sex. Those kinds of generalizations only make it worse for those who don't think that way at all.

As for your argument, well, it depends on who you go for. I would rather not waste my time trying to win over those who are shallow enough to sleep with any said "hot smooth talkers" within a matter of days, and I could not have much respect for anyone willing to give into actual Nice Guys or string them along. It helps to have standards yourself. Of course it seems very difficult to find someone who is both completely honest and does not act on impulse at the same time.


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Kaufmancab51
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14 Jan 2013, 1:28 pm

The more we talk about this whole Nice Guy thing, the more I keep bringing up this link. You guys really need to read this stuff, it's worth it. Coming from someone who used to think they were a "Nice Guy," I strongly recommend it.

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... s/ng.shtml



Kezzstar
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14 Jan 2013, 2:15 pm

Kaufmancab51 wrote:
The more we talk about this whole Nice Guy thing, the more I keep bringing up this link. You guys really need to read this stuff, it's worth it. Coming from someone who used to think they were a "Nice Guy," I strongly recommend it.

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... s/ng.shtml


I love Heartless b*****s. Some very intelligent and thoughtful people on that site if they let you on.


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MCalavera
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14 Jan 2013, 4:24 pm

Kezzstar wrote:
Actually, I think the "Nice Guy/Girl" and the "Jerk" are really the exact same kind of people, they both manipulate their victims into giving them what they want (sex), however seeing as the "Nice Guy/Girl" doesn't have the physical qualities of the "Jerk", they just need to take a different approach.


I disagree. They're different kinds.

The Nice Guy is often more misguided than aware of what he's doing. Manipulation usually requires intent.



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14 Jan 2013, 6:48 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Kezzstar wrote:
Actually, I think the "Nice Guy/Girl" and the "Jerk" are really the exact same kind of people, they both manipulate their victims into giving them what they want (sex), however seeing as the "Nice Guy/Girl" doesn't have the physical qualities of the "Jerk", they just need to take a different approach.

Geniunely nice people have better things to do with their time.

this is true. very good insight.

about the discussion regarding how looks play into this... if it was that much about looks then all of the good looking guys on WrongPlanet would have success no matter what method they tried. since that isn't true, they are proving your theory bogus. it's about more than just looks a lot of the time.

The problem is there are many different ways of being good looking. Some of them are in a sexual manner, others can be in business/professional manners, and others can just be like a handsome matter. All this can affect the way that looks effective conversation. You wouldn't take much business advice from the hot person. Same way you wouldn't take much sex advice from the business person.