if a guy sleeps with 100 ugly women is he an alpha?

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well, I am very happy that you being a women is being honest about aspie men having trouble in dating. And to oliveoilmom I respect your honesty too.
I can't speak for all aspie/autism men because we are all different. Like I said,some aspie men do very well in dating, some do very well in making female friends ( that would be me) while other aspie men just can't talk to women, or they just scare them away.

so let just talk about the 3rd group of aspie men, the shy and ''weird'' ( I don't think aspie men are weird but they may be seen as weird or creepy by some female)
what would say to them, to solve their problem. Shyness can be tough for some people to overcome.

One of my favorite men of all times, Tesla, was no less of a man for not chasing women. :) These guys are ridiculous...

Of course. I think it's really important for both genders to be honest about things. There are abounding misconceptions on both sides & the only way to repair them is to communicate. I thank you as well. I am not the most delicate with the sugarcoating people are supposed to do when discussing this kind of thing. I don't know how to do that but still be clear, so I'm really glad you weren't offended!

It's great that you have a lot of female friends. That's a good sign already, as you're already at a certain starting point.

So, first off, let's take a hint from Plato & define "weird." What does that mean to you, precisely? Do you mean you collect dead creatures or that you stare a lot or that people say you are a robot... or what? Weird can mean a great many things to a great many people.

No, trust me, there'd still be problems. The not-so-good-looking and awkward guys would still be skipped over completely. Nothing would change.

I agree with some of MoonriseGirl's post, except for a few things:



I'm sorry, but being confident in your own skin doesn't mean much of anything, if other people see you totally differently. Think about "ugly" people who have lots of confidence, for example. They're just thought of as narcissists, instead of confident.

The advice isn't usually to meet women who value us because this is a shallow society. A very shallow, one-sided society at that. You have ten seconds (maybe even less) to make an impression on someone. Unfortunately, as aspies, we get keelhauled soon as we take a step. Doubly so if they're like me and they don't look like Channing Tatum. It doesn't matter if we're confident or what.

I also don't understand the "bed and dump" mentality. It's counterproductive. But you know what? If you think about it differently, that will still be seen as a step above never having anyone attracted to you (another side effect of this society :/ )



But the catch is, if you DON'T do something to change your personality (doesn't necessarily mean becoming a PUA) you probably either won't find anyone or you'll find them too late. Or you'll find them and then scare them away. At least....if you're a guy. Unfortunately (perhaps maybe a little bit fortunately?), most Aspies are honest and want to be themselves, but feel like they can't be.



Coulda fooled me. Then why does the PUA thing work so much? If it didn't, no one would do it.



That is, unless they're weird, look funny, or are awkward. Again, it's all about how others see you.

I mean, what you just said is a cute thought, but idealistic. I'll say that I wish more girls thought like you. Then maybe some of us guys would have a chance.



Not many, MoonriseGirl....noooooot many. Simply looking out my window confirms that, sadly.

to mr. dialforawesome, Yeah I know, being yourself sometimes can make it tough to get a date, if at all.
to be honest, the fact I have had sex before, kind of put the pressure off me. I already complete the ''ultimate goal''
but I do feel for the guys who never had sex, never had girlfriend. I can't image what my life would be like,
never having sex by 30, by 35. I just so sorry for alot of guys ( and ladies too, who haven't either) who never done it.

and my only sex partner was a cute autism girl. so that make it better, and was not some random drunk girl.
Like I said mr dial for awesome, it's tough out there for alot of you aspie men, it very, very hard to get a date.
I just got very, very lucky that some cute autism girl ask me to have sex with her, if it wasn't for a lady that
broke the social rule, I mostly would had never sex, and most likely be more bitter and anger at stuff,
but Im glad she met me. I don't mean to brag, but having sex, is one of the best thing to ever happen to me.

In fact, to this day, it still kinda of a shock to me, that I had sex before, it's very emotional for me, sorry Im getting a
little weird here.

I can't help any of guys, maybe hang around women with autism, maybe they will date you.

I think MoonriseGirl has some good points. What she wants is what most women want. But reality works out differently. Here's why:

Many women, especially attractive women, are being used to getting hit on repeatedly. Given the existence of rape culture, many women also have to worry about their safety. Due to these circumstances, women are forced to develop a number of safety and screening mechanisms to (1) avoid being sluts (sleeping with everybody) and (2) getting raped.

1. Screening mechanisms: does the guy seem "off"? How about poorly dressed and groomed? If so, keep a wary eye on him and make sure that pink pepper spray bottle is at the top of your purse. If he talks to you and something about him makes your skin crawl (women are very instinctual), call your girlfriends and have them escort you to another area while your face twitches nervously and your girlfriends signal their empathetic responses to you. Maybe a "are you alright?" whether express or implied.

2. Screening mechanisms: hit on by 10 guys tonight. Nice aspie guy is #10. Girl's friends signal their disapproval. That one was kind of "blah." Too serious, no sense of humor, and terrible fashion choices. "He seems really nice, but I'm just not attracted to him. I hate how he was all about himself, also; he kept going on and on about his interests and didn't seem by his body language to even seem like I was there." Girlfriend: "Girl, I'm really sorry. You're totally above him."

3. Real PUA (not somebody who runs an internet site) walks into the scene. Girl's friends smile and talk to him. Girl looks at her friends unnoticeably. They signal their approval silently ("girl coding"). He has a sense of humor and makes her laugh constantly. Guy gets her number, and the rest is history.

He turns out to be a narcissistic abuser or a male borderline with a trail of broken hearts behind him.

Such is life. Women may not admit this is how the process works. But I look like a safe gay guy, so I have infiltrated their secret procedures many times and learned their art.

There are a few things about Pickup Artist I'd like to say.

It's training in sociopathic behavior toward women and women are mistreated enough in society (in ALL societies) as it is. It's pretty impossible to explain to males, who don't have to grow up looking over their shoulder, worrying about living on a ground floor apartment or parking under a street lamp, walking with key in hand or pepper spray, on and on and on.

Look at what happened to the three girls in Cleveland OH who only wanted a ride home. Yet most men will be offended if on a first date the woman says "let's meet somewhere" instead of being picked up at her home or driven there by the man she only recently met.

Women are the way they are mostly due to survival instinct, and there is also a huge difference in how women respond to pickup attempts based upon:

Is she a woman or still a girl? (Explanation to follow.)

Does she want a sex partner for the short term, a boyfriend, or a husband?

What I meant by 'woman or girl' is that younger women, usually the target of a pickup artist since it's all about impressing other males with a trophy he bagged, fall for things an older or more experienced woman would not. They don't realize that a shark is prowling for easy prey. They just see a guy who put some effort into grooming, smiles a lot, and 'seems' charming.

Also a female (avoiding the girl/woman thing for now) out for a short term thing with a male will pay more attention to the superficial aspects. She isn't thinking about good father or provider material. She's thinking about fun same as he is. Or she is thinking about Prince Charming or impressing her friends but, only on a superficial level: looks and charm and money. (The very trappings of a sociopath most often.)

So if your target is young foolish girls willing to be easily picked up in a bar, then Pickup Artist might work for you. But it's a misogynistic system overall, because it also helps men who really dislike women but only want to even the score (pump and dump to get back at being rejected before), nail as many as possible, or sometimes, something worse.

If your aim is to find a stable mate or wife, pickup artist techniques are NOT the way to go. "Negging" is really just criticizing a woman and trying to keep her off balance. It is not a positive thing to do (by definition) and in the case of a woman who is insecure inside, it can damage her. And a lot of guys will take it too far, because let's face it a lot will take the course and put their own spin on it or not understand it.

I've seen the forums about PUA online and the comments from males there are often very cold hearted. I've seen hunters with more compassion for their kills. I would hope for all males that they seek a system that is not so misogynistic at its core. I believe it will only hurt you in the long run as well, to see women as prey.

Pickup artist's need to stay away from my sister or get their legs stabbed with a pickaAXE. Also I dislike PUA's, They put disvalue on sex and make it seem less important and sacred than it is.

Do you mean by 'mistreated' as facing risks of rape/harassment? if it's the case then yea, this risk exists in all societies, but if by 'mistreated' you mean they're treated as second class in all societies then it's not quite true, it's the case in a society like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, but not in a country like yours.


I have never picked up a first date (I was picked up ).

I am more compatible with "let's meet somewhere"- women than "I am a woman and you are a man therefore you must pick me up"-type, the latter, in my experience, are traditional, materialistic and feel they're entitled to be treated like princesses.

Isn't your sister a person such that she has freedom of choice to date whomever she wants? Or is she just a glass doll?

I don't get all the hating on PUA's. Yeah, a lot of it's stupid. But some women have pretty much the same attitude towards sex and hookups. As long as it's consensual sex, I don't think anyone is getting "victimized."

FYI, I have hung out with lots of girls as a "gay friend, " and they talk about men as "prey" also. I think there are some double-standards going on here. In fact, I could imagine a lot of feminists objecting to what's being said. Allowing women to be able to choose to approach sex the way men traditionally have done it is a form of empowerment. Calling them "victims" when they choose to have a one-night stand is a form of patronizing.

Last time I was over at Ole Boy's house I had a female friend with me. We were all sitting at the bar and he was in the middle but me and her were talking about guys. Like we would talk about guys if no guy was around. He turned about fifty shades of red and was shocked at how we really talk about them.

And yeah, many, many women choose to have one night stands and they aren't victims at all. You are only a victim if the guy talks you into it by hinting that he wants a relationship. Then again, you shouldn't fall for that.

I recently got stuck in a conversation with five girls fantasizing about chaining a guy to a light pole and....

So yeah, know exactly what you mean. I think women who fall for the whole "wanting a relationships" thing are naive and probably need to learn about the real world. That said, I have seen women who just want a short-term fling lead on guys who wanted a relationship, too. Those guys are equally stupid.

Especially since, in many cases, the guy/girl who is the so-called victimizer/PUA (whether male PUA or female PUA) is COMPLETELY HONEST but the other party's emotions get in the way, and she/he hears what he/she wants to hear.

There is certainly a degree of someone looking for a relationship being more likely to find being hit on as someone looking to have a relationship. We humans do tend to hear what we want.
And that all goes far beyond just one night stands.

I'm not sure what your sources are. Usually, I've heard the term narcissism in reference to people who in many cases are considered culturally to be attractive, but have a certain self-obsessed, dramatic, dishonest & antisocial traits. (Think Scott Peterson.)

Someone who is not traditionally good-looking but has confidence merited by their own human existence or positive attributes would merely be considered confident. Confidence - the honest recognition of one's own worth as a human- really is important. The truth is, if you are a happy person & you are content with yourself, people, including women, will often enjoy your company more because it isn't as tense or stressful to be with you. :)



I know that there is truth in what you say. And, I DO feel terrible for men, both NT's & Aspies, who go through this (provided they are good guys with good intentions. ;) ). I can only begin to imagine how disheartening it must be.

It is true that if you like a woman who is standing next to you in line at the grocery store, that you only have a few seconds. However, if you happen to be in a writer's group, or any interest group at all, or volunteering somewhere, or in a group of friends or something, then you will have repeated contacts with the very same person. You will have much more time to be appreciated, if you are a good person. This will show through in time. If there is a female looking for something serious, then she is likely looking for a good person with shared interests & this may go quite well. If one sticks with a method of bar-hopping, sure, it helps to look like Channing Tatem. But, why do that? If the problem is that the world is shallow, why make it even more shallow?



I guess if someone is looking for a bunch of high-fives from a bunch of anthropoids, sure. But, I have never met any woman who would see a guy who "beds and dumps" as a step above a nice person who isn't cruel to women just to get his rocks off. I also think there are some good guys out there who aren't impressed with cruelty either. The reason both men & women call these kinds of people douchebags is because they are NOT impressed. ;)



-Abandoning a superior personality for a more jerk-like personality is a different thing than discovering ways to have greater control over one's mannerisms & outward appearance. The problem I keep seeing is that instead of changing mannerisms, guys are changing who they are internally, and not in a positive way at all, but in a way that not only hurts others, but in the end will hurt themselves as well. I disagree with quite a bit of what TyriOn says, but he is right with regards to dressing in a way that denotes safety & he is right about why. You can target specific behaviors that may drive other people away. Find out why what you are doing upsets women. Knowing is half the battle. There is a fine line between how you present who you really are & actually changing who you are & how you perceive & treat women. The problem is too many people are on the wrong side of the line.

-You can't find someone too late. That doesn't make sense. If you aren't dead & the other person isn't dead, it isn't too late.

-Yes, it is fortunate most Aspies want to be honest. That's why I'm so surprised that any of them would subscribe to this nonsense. lol I hope more of them do that instead of becoming womanizers. The unfortunate part is that this advice works to such a degree that people start believing the bad advice as well, & in the end, if a guy is even able to love anybody at all after seeing life from behind the highly distorted PUA lens for too long, he won't be able to have a healthy relationship, so she'll probably leave him & he won't even know why. =/



It essentially works by going to places where women are drunk & vulnerable, getting them alone & manipulating them into feeling safe & loved, so the guy can have sex. It works because some of the advice is effective & because it essentially treats women like prey. It's like hunting. But, women are not terrible people just because they are female, so it's really pretty crappy to treat them that way. Honestly, I think one of the reasons it works is that it teaches guys to not care at all about women or have an emotional attachment to them & absolves them of the responsibility of having a conscience at all. It's easier to succeed if you are willing to lie, con & trick someone without caring or realizing it hurts them in ways you can't even understand.

The real question, DialAForAwesome is... At what expense do these methods work? And, is there a less soul-killing way to achieve whatever your own personal goals regarding women are?

On any playground, there are bullies. But, there are good people, too. Is there any particular reason why guys don't want to go out with nice girls? Is there any particular reason that the girl has to be drop-dead gorgeous or an NT? Is there any reason to avoid nice, perhaps even quiet girls who are overlooked the way the nice guys have been overlooked? Have you seen the Big Bang Theory? I hope, because I can't think of another way to explain this. There's a female character, Amy, who has absolutely no fashion sense and pretty sketchy social skills, but is a really great person, can keep up intellectually & is interesting. Many guys I know who complain about being overlooked would never give a girl like Amy the time of day... Amy is the kind of person who would not make fun of people. Is it possible that lots of great guys don't realize how many great girls are also getting overlooked? Is it possible that some of these guys who feel sorry for themselves have girls like that around them but won't give them the time of day? I only ask because I've seen it happen so many times. Lots of times, the girl is happy to go out with an unusual guy... but the unusual guy wants to go out with someone more NT or traditionally beautiful, even if she's mean.



Not all girls think this way, but there are plenty, both Aspies & NTs who are just good people & aren't that shallow. Guys have plenty of chances. lol They just don't recognize the opportunities they have in life. This probably goes doubly for Aspies. And, yes, learning some basic concepts about presenting himself could help to create more opportunities for a lonely heart. I know it seems idealistic to think love happens without games, but it does. It isn't every day, but eventually if you try, & if you think things through & find the right person, you will have better luck.

If you don't throw in the towel, of course there is an excellent chance for all of you. And, what you have will be as unique & profound as you all are, individually. If you are honest, your relationship will be able to be honest... You create what you will have by being who you are. After the towel is thrown, though, there is NO hope. Most of us don't want to go out with sociopaths who will treat us like crap! Some very inebriated, mentally challenged/ill, addicts, or very desperate girls may fall for this act, but the kind of woman anyone would want to actually be with just won't buy it. This isn't that hard to understand. Are you guys not seeing this or not caring because basically you only want sex & don't want any other kind of future for yourselves? (please don't be insulted. I really am confused.)





So exactly how many women do you actually need? haha

My experience has been, through observation, that women (and girls using Moon's definitions) use their perception of the guy's charisma/confidence as a first filter, apparent (observed) wealth/resources as second, cleanliness as third and finally the personality of the guy as last filter when choosing who to give a chance.

Guys with AS I think have no problems with #2 and #3 but the #1 filter is where we get weeded out and there is no chance to display #4. Personality is usually picked up after 'some time' of interaction (a few days or a week of contact) and that's rather hard to display if you don't get a first date to begin with.

Thing is, I remember the first time I met others with AS, years ago. It was a meeting and the first thing that was quite noticeable (instantly) was that both males and females when they spoke did it in vocal tones that projected the opposite of confidence. Its hard to describe.. it wasn't nervousness or anxiety.. they all just sounded insecure. Yet what they said..not how they said it.. displayed a mastery of the subjects at hand. I recorded myself (audio) during work meetings, when meeting/asking girls out, when talking to classmates, etc. I did it too.. every single time.

I think this is a major factor in the problem... since women use those very vocal (and non-verbal) cues to pick up confidence/charisma this is very detrimental to AS males when trying to initiate a relationship (of any kind). AS females oth, it is a blessing as guys don't really consider insecurity as a turn off (for many its a turn-on actually) and also a curse as this makes AS women be perceived as 'target prey' to these PUA's, predators and guys who generally aren't after a long term relationship.

My sister is 13.