The Cure for Nice Guy Syndrome

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cubedemon6073
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15 May 2014, 5:59 pm

billiscool wrote:
starvingartist wrote:

^this happens because they sense that to acknowledge the truth is to acknowledge things about themselves (typically unpleasant things) that they really don't want to acknowledge. they cannot accept the reality of their own truths (the content of their character, the way they treat others, their true motivations for their behaviour), and so they cannot accept external truths that in any way expose/relate to/reference their internal ones.


expect if they don't agree with you.I have ''looked''at myself
and did change alot about myself.But because Im not
a anti nice guy,white knight male feminist,It doesn't count.

Yes,Just because I Improve my skills with ladies doesn't
mean I have to bash nice guys.And I got two ladies now,Btw.


Bill, how do you know you're not causing evil on these ladies?



Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 15 May 2014, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Geekonychus
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15 May 2014, 5:59 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Sixth, it would be awesome if people would show where I am wrong here on my blog. If my thinking is deluded then I wish others would show me.

http://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.c ... mit=Search

Is my reasoning faulty and if so where and what premises are faulty in the posts I've made here so far?

From what I can glean from this blog is that you are so desperate to think of yourself as some kind of martyr that you'll go to ridiculously convoluted, overly complicated and nigh incomprehensible lengths to portray yourself as such. This includes concocting absurd fiction with no basis in real life (your "trial" piece) to somehow illustrate how put upon you are. Delusional is right. A person with his head firmly in reality wouldn't need to go to such lengths to prove a point.

In a way, it's atypical of the average niceguy syndrome sufferer as those types (such as the "Cry-wanker" above and others in this thread) tend to go the opposite direction and make up overly simplified reasons for their lack of success (I.E. "Women I meet don't want to go out with me, therefore it must be because women only date jerks. I'm just "too nice" to be loved.") They think of dating and courtship like a business transaction (women are slot machines and if I put enough nice guy tokens in eventually sex will fall out) rather than the complex and unique social dynamic it actually is. When their experiences don't pan out the way they think it should (like in a business transaction) they feel cheated and bitter. That being said, the same entitled attitude and desire for pity is still readily apparent in your writings, no matter how many words you add to pad it out to make it sound deeper than it actually is.

What you and others don't seem to grasp is that it's that bitter whiny entitled attitude what women find truly unattractive, not being "too nice" to them.

A truly nice guy is nice without the expectation of getting anything is return. Being kind to others is not some kind of incredible accomplishment that deserves Martyrdom. It's literally the bare minimum necessary for being a decent human being. Nobody deserves jacks*** for being nice. Not sex, not praise, not even a thank you (although the latter's generally appreciated.) If the only positive adjective a person can think of to describe themselves is "nice" than they're either incredibly boring or not actually that nice at all.


Huh, what did what I write on my blog have to deal with nice guy syndrome? How do you connect the dots? Now I'm really confused. All I wanted was a critique on my writings and the things about American society that make no sense to me. This is the purpose of creating this thread. To make sense of certain things in my past and now it is to make sense of why others with this syndrome will not accept my advice from what I have processed. How were you able to mix apples and oranges?

This has been an educational experience thus far. I'm learning more and confirming my conclusions. Now, I have to reject an assumption I have held dear and that is that people are logical which is only partly true. I have to conclude that what Dr. Morris Berman says about people not being logical has partial truth to it. People don't always use logic to make their decisions and come to their conclusions. They use emotional data as well which is enlightening for me. Fascinating! I would like to understand more.


I'd be tempted to correct myself, but I don't think you make your points as clearly as you think you do. If your writings have nothing to do with the topic of the thread why bring it up? If anything, it derailing.......

My greater points of your apperent need to be perceived as a martyr, still stand, imo.



starvingartist
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15 May 2014, 6:07 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
cubedemon--i wish it were as simple as dismantling his faulty argument by providing logic/empirical evidence to the contrary.

the mistake you are making is assuming that he has never been presented with an argument that obviously proves his own to be false, and if he were presented with such proof he would logically change his position. people who defend "nice guys" with obvious emotional need to believe their own argument are confronted with logic that refutes their position constantly, from other people as well as their own observations of reality; but because they are so emotionally invested in believing women won't have sex with them because women are obsessed with "power" and they are just too nice to try to be "powerful" therefore it is women's fault for not wanting to sleep with them (or whatever irrational belief about people it is that they are clinging to), they ignore any evidence showing the reality of the situation to be contrary to their desperate belief--no matter how logical and undeniable is the evidence. if they were to change their view they would have to do a lot of introspection and analysis of themselves and their psyches because their internal picture would no longer match what they now know to be the logic of reality (no, not all women are obsessed with power--shocking!).

when i realise that someone is making an argument from such an emotional investment and they are unwilling to consider evidence to the contrary, i stop trying to present an actual argument to the contrary because it is a pointless endeavour. however, such people insist on participating in discussions about their faulty beliefs while not being willing to use their intellectual faculties to question themselves and their own arguments as well as the evidence presented to them. that is intellectually dishonest and, in my estimation, invitation for mocking.


I understand where you're coming from and never thought about it that way. For me, if I'm shown where I'm wrong on something or am able to analyze an argument myself to know where I am wrong I will alter my position. It is difficult for me to conceive that there are people who do this yet I have experienced this phenomena myself. I don't know why. Why wouldn't they want to get to better truths of things and get to an underlying truth of all?


^this happens because they sense that to acknowledge the truth is to acknowledge things about themselves (typically unpleasant things) that they really don't want to acknowledge. they cannot accept the reality of their own truths (the content of their character, the way they treat others, their true motivations for their behaviour), and so they cannot accept external truths that in any way expose/relate to/reference their internal ones.


Well, when I was 18-19 you could say I was guilty as charged as having the syndrome. As I went through college and learned critical thinking I started to realize how fallacious it all was. I rejected the culture that promoted the garbage that led to it. So, I shifted my priorities to things like to school work. Now, I have a beautiful wife who I love dearly. It was like a weight lifted off of my shoulders. Why won't others accept this logic? I was able to shift my thinking when I saw this crazy thinking. Why won't others do so as well? Why stick to something that is fallacious? Where is my thinking wrong? How do I get them to spin their own straw into gold?


apparently you wanted to change and were ready and mature enough to do so, and made the effort to re-examine and question your ideas to see what was leading you astray. that's not an easy thing to do for many people, and is commendable. unfortunately not everybody gets there at the same rate--some get there very late in life, and some (lamentably) never get there at all. in some people, the desire for truth just never gets stronger than the fear of it.


I want and have this inordinate desire to get to the truth(s) of all and the reasoning. It is so complex though as truths are so interwoven together and there are grey areas.


i've had a similar very strong desire since i was a young child; it has always been the driving force behind my curiosity and my love of (and compulsion for) learning. however, probably one of the most useful axioms i have ever encountered in life is "A truly wise man knows that he knows nothing"--a healthy reminder to remain open-minded and willing to question any "truths" one may have settled on.



Hopper
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15 May 2014, 6:07 pm

starvingartist wrote:
^this happens because they sense that to acknowledge the truth is to acknowledge things about themselves (typically unpleasant things) that they really don't want to acknowledge. they cannot accept the reality of their own truths (the content of their character, the way they treat others, their true motivations for their behaviour), and so they cannot accept external truths that in any way expose/relate to/reference their internal ones.


Damn right.

Geekonychus wrote:
A truly nice guy is nice without the expectation of getting anything is return. Being kind to others is not some kind of incredible accomplishment that deserves Martyrdom. It's literally the bare minimum necessary for being a decent human being. Nobody deserves jacks*** for being nice. Not sex, not praise, not even a thank you (although the latter's generally appreciated.) If the only positive adjective a person can think of to describe themselves is "nice" than they're either incredibly boring or not actually that nice at all.


Exactly.

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Well, when I was 18-19 you could say I was guilty as charged as having the syndrome. As I went through college and learned critical thinking I started to realize how fallacious it all was. I rejected the culture that promoted the garbage that led to it. So, I shifted my priorities to things like to school work. Now, I have a beautiful wife who I love dearly. It was like a weight lifted off of my shoulders. Why won't others accept this logic? I was able to shift my thinking when I saw this crazy thinking. Why won't others do so as well? Why stick to something that is fallacious? Where is my thinking wrong? How do I get them to spin their own straw into gold?



You can't. It's little to do with 'logic', or whether or not something is 'fallacious'. That way of going at it may have worked for you, doesn't mean it will for them. To see where someone's thinking may be able to go, you first have to have an idea of where they've come from, and how they got to where they are.

I think, at various points throughout our lives, we all have things we believe that we really want to be true. Need to be true. A particular circumstance can force an epiphany and change of perspective on these matters. Otherwise, as starvingartist said, it takes a lot of introspection and (self-)analysis. Don't just ask what someone believes - this is where you're at when you talk about 'logic' or 'empirical evidence'. Ask why they may need to believe that. I laid out above why I think Nice Guys need to believe what they do.

What is 'logical' to a person very much depends on that person.


_________________
Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


cubedemon6073
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15 May 2014, 6:16 pm

Quote:
i've had a similar very strong desire since i was a young child; it has always been the driving force behind my curiosity and my love of (and compulsion for) learning. however, probably one of the most useful axioms i have ever encountered in life is "A truly wise man knows that he knows nothing"--a healthy reminder to remain open-minded and willing to question any "truths" one may have settled on.


Spoken by the great philosopher Socrates. I go by it as well. Here is my question then. If I know that statement to be true and it is true then how can I know that it is truthfully true?



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15 May 2014, 6:20 pm

Geekonychus wrote:

Billiscool is the perfect example of starvingartists points in action. His perspective is so narrow that he can't even comprehend why a man would actually agree with a women unless they were looking for something romantic in return (whiteknighting.) Like most nice guys, he judges his self worth by the number ladies he pulls, not his character.


Hey,they approach me. And Just because I have two
women who really like me(they came to me)doesn't
mean I have to go white Knight.That's you people
problem,you guys act like only far leftist,white
knights males can get girls.



starvingartist
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15 May 2014, 6:30 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Quote:
i've had a similar very strong desire since i was a young child; it has always been the driving force behind my curiosity and my love of (and compulsion for) learning. however, probably one of the most useful axioms i have ever encountered in life is "A truly wise man knows that he knows nothing"--a healthy reminder to remain open-minded and willing to question any "truths" one may have settled on.


Spoken by the great philosopher Socrates. I go by it as well. Here is my question then. If I know that statement to be true and it is true then how can I know that it is truthfully true?


you can't know anything for certain, that is the point. it means: go forth acknowledging that anything you may come to understand you can only understand incompletely (because human understanding is/was/always will be by nature incomplete), and always be willing to accept the possibility that you might be wrong. and as you said, there are lots of grey areas in life where ultimate objective truths may not be possible--so to accept that rather than fight it is what it means to be wise.



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15 May 2014, 6:49 pm

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you can't know anything for certain, that is the point. it means: go forth acknowledging that anything you may come to understand you can only understand incompletely (because human understanding is/was/always will be by nature incomplete), and always be willing to accept the possibility that you might be wrong. and as you said, there are lots of grey areas in life where ultimate objective truths may not be possible--so to accept that rather than fight it is what it means to be wise.


Do you know what? I'm very impressed. You're a very intelligent person. This is one of many qualities I admire in a person.

What if the process of seeking the better truth(s) is the truth so in effect the process becomes the answer?



cubedemon6073
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15 May 2014, 6:57 pm

billiscool wrote:
Geekonychus wrote:

Billiscool is the perfect example of starvingartists points in action. His perspective is so narrow that he can't even comprehend why a man would actually agree with a women unless they were looking for something romantic in return (whiteknighting.) Like most nice guys, he judges his self worth by the number ladies he pulls, not his character.


Hey,they approach me. And Just because I have two
women who really like me(they came to me)doesn't
mean I have to go white Knight.That's you people
problem,you guys act like only far leftist,white
knights males can get girls.


Huh?



cubedemon6073
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15 May 2014, 7:11 pm

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I'd be tempted to correct myself, but I don't think you make your points as clearly as you think you do. If your writings have nothing to do with the topic of the thread why bring it up? If anything, it derailing.......


My Answer: Simply To understand. My claim: I know that I know not.

Quote:
My greater points of your apperent need to be perceived as a martyr, still stand, imo.


If one believes that martyrdom will lead to a noble end for all, why is martyrdom and the perception of martyrdom considered ignoble and is considered a vice in our day and age? If one is ignorant as to what good, evil, virtue and vice are can you clarify better please? All I can truthfully claim is to be ignorant in many matters at hand.

Why is derailing a thread is ignoble if one's intent is to seek virtue, clarity and goodness?

By the way, what is reality? What is the underlying essence of reality? Can you explain reality to me please?

What is complexity vs. the simple? Why can't my complexity be your simple and my simple be my complexity? Who and what is the definer of what is complex and what is simple? What is the essence and meaning of these things?

What is essence of kindness and niceness?



billiscool
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15 May 2014, 7:30 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:

Huh?


I'll explain. Im not a white knight,anti nice guy.
I don't need to bully single,unsuccessful men
like people here do. (on this thread)



cubedemon6073
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15 May 2014, 7:37 pm

billiscool wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:

Huh?


I'll explain. Im not a white knight,anti nice guy.
I don't need to bully single,unsuccessful men
like people here do. (on this thread)


I'm not bullying you and if it comes across that way then it is unintentional.



starvingartist
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15 May 2014, 7:42 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Quote:
you can't know anything for certain, that is the point. it means: go forth acknowledging that anything you may come to understand you can only understand incompletely (because human understanding is/was/always will be by nature incomplete), and always be willing to accept the possibility that you might be wrong. and as you said, there are lots of grey areas in life where ultimate objective truths may not be possible--so to accept that rather than fight it is what it means to be wise.


Do you know what? I'm very impressed. You're a very intelligent person. This is one of many qualities I admire in a person.

What if the process of seeking the better truth(s) is the truth so in effect the process becomes the answer?


meh--i've been around the block a few times, and picked up (and incompletely understood :lol:) a book here and there, that's all that is. thanks, though; it's kind of you to say.

in reference to your question (if it wasn't completely rhetorical; sometimes i miss those): they do say something about the journey being more important than the destination. i think that the search for truth/wisdom in life is just the sort of thing they mean when they say such.



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15 May 2014, 7:53 pm

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meh--i've been around the block a few times, and picked up (and incompletely understood :lol:) a book here and there, that's all that is. thanks, though; it's kind of you to say.


No problem.

Quote:
in reference to your question (if it wasn't completely rhetorical; sometimes i miss those): they do say something about the journey being more important than the destination. i think that the search for truth/wisdom in life is just the sort of thing they mean when they say such


Sometimes though, It is more important to get a Pastrami on Rye from Canter's Deli.



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15 May 2014, 11:42 pm

Geekonychus wrote:
Preachy thread is preachy........ This is the kind of advice a Clergyman would give and almost none actually relate to NGS.


How about being honest and up front about your feelings instead of being a resentful entitled jerk? Worked for me.

Your constant need to attack and act arrogant reveals something about you. Really, what the f**k is wrong with you?



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16 May 2014, 5:17 am

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