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so if you didn't feel like you had to get a girl....

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Ladywoofwoof
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13 Jul 2014, 5:20 pm

:-) I am genuinely confused.



babybird
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13 Jul 2014, 5:24 pm

^^They won the world cup!^^


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mr_bigmouth_502
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13 Jul 2014, 5:34 pm

I often feel pressured by society to go out and get a girlfriend, but at this point I really don't feel I'm ready for one, nor do I exactly desire one. I think it would be cool to have an FWB, but I don't think I could handle a full-blown girlfriend. As well, the type of women who become people's FWBs aren't typically the type one would want to sleep with, mainly due to things like STDs, baby mama drama, and other things like that. If I ever decide to get into a relationship, I want to do it the right way, with someone I actually love, who also loves me in return.

Fantasy is one thing, reality is another. I like the idea of romance as they show it in the movies, but I know that that's NOT how it is in real life, and it kinda saddens me. I only wish I could be a swashbuckling hunk who gets the girl, and kicks tons of ass along the way.

In a lot of ways I feel like a hopeless romantic, because I have this fantasy idea of what it should be, which I desire but I know it's not how things work in real life, and I know that I would have a lot of personal issues to sort out and people skills to brush up on if I were to pursue a real relationship.

I know I sound kind of contradictory, but it's just complicated. :P



Ladywoofwoof
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13 Jul 2014, 5:38 pm

I don't think that seems contradictory.
I think that what you have said makes a lot of sense.



em_tsuj
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13 Jul 2014, 6:06 pm

smudge wrote:
In all honesty, I thought the original topic was interesting. I don't understand how it was sexist or making assumptions.


It is sexist because it lumps people together into a group (males). People are individuals. There is much more variability of personality within each sex than there is between the sexes. You cannot generalize based on sex.

It makes an assumption that men have more pressure to get into a relationship than women do. It makes a second assumption: that this pressure comes from other men (as in peer pressure). I just don't see it. I can see it in adolescents (that includes people in their early 20's). I don't see it in adults. I know plenty of people who are single (male or female) and they don't catch flack because they are single.



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13 Jul 2014, 6:15 pm

^ Thank you for the explanation. :)


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The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Jul 2014, 6:21 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
tarantella64 wrote:
But again, maybe it's a class/social thing. Nearly all my women friends, young and old, expect or expected to have professions, their own lives. There was never any sense of social doom without marriage. I can't remember the last time we inquired about each others' sex lives, either, but -- no, the conversations are very much along the lines of "what are you doing with your life, are you happy, what have you been thinking about, what are you doing next, how is your kid/sister/mom/etc."


How is this supposed to be any different from any other social circle, male or female, hetero gay or otherwise?

Newsflash: People don't tend to go around boasting about their sex lives or inquiring about their friends' sex lives. Everyone else out there has normal friendships, relationships, and that typical daily conversation topics that go along with them. In my experience it's quite rare than anyone ever mentions their sex life, and even rarer that anyone inquires about anyone else'.



Same here, tarantella probably thinks that we guys talk about penis contest on a beer gathering.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 13 Jul 2014, 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

starvingartist
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13 Jul 2014, 6:21 pm

em_tsuj wrote:
smudge wrote:
In all honesty, I thought the original topic was interesting. I don't understand how it was sexist or making assumptions.


It is sexist because it lumps people together into a group (males). People are individuals. There is much more variability of personality within each sex than there is between the sexes. You cannot generalize based on sex.

It makes an assumption that men have more pressure to get into a relationship than women do. It makes a second assumption: that this pressure comes from other men (as in peer pressure). I just don't see it. I can see it in adolescents (that includes people in their early 20's). I don't see it in adults. I know plenty of people who are single (male or female) and they don't catch flack because they are single.


wait, how is acknowledging that our culture encourages guys to "score" and places more pressure on young single men to find relationships/women than it does single women currently, or even discussing the possibility that our culture might have this effect sexist? she made an observation based on some common themes of posts of young men in the L & D subforum, that there seems to be an inordinate amount of social pressure on young men to "get" girlfriends to have more social status. i fail to see how this is sexist of her, noting this observation, or asking said young men how they would feel if they experienced less of such pressure, if it exists.



em_tsuj
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13 Jul 2014, 6:27 pm

starvingartist wrote:
em_tsuj wrote:
smudge wrote:
In all honesty, I thought the original topic was interesting. I don't understand how it was sexist or making assumptions.


It is sexist because it lumps people together into a group (males). People are individuals. There is much more variability of personality within each sex than there is between the sexes. You cannot generalize based on sex.

It makes an assumption that men have more pressure to get into a relationship than women do. It makes a second assumption: that this pressure comes from other men (as in peer pressure). I just don't see it. I can see it in adolescents (that includes people in their early 20's). I don't see it in adults. I know plenty of people who are single (male or female) and they don't catch flack because they are single.


wait, how is acknowledging that our culture encourages guys to "score" and places more pressure on young single men to find relationships/women than it does single women currently, or even discussing the possibility that our culture might have this effect sexist? she made an observation based on some common themes of posts of young men in the L & D subforum, that there seems to be an inordinate amount of social pressure on young men to "get" girlfriends to have more social status. i fail to see how this is sexist of her, noting this observation, or asking said young men how they would feel if they experienced less of such pressure, if it exists.


How is it not sexist to make generalizations about men?



The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Jul 2014, 6:28 pm

^ A lot of guys made threads based on societal observations and cultural realities (ie. why girls rarely ask out, why women prefer bigger men...etc) and they were accused of making sexist generalizations.
So here we go, clearly a lot of guys think this thread is sexist and offensive too, so far 5 guys in this thread alone sensed it is sexist, are we all ret*ds?



em_tsuj
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13 Jul 2014, 6:30 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ A lot of guys made threads based on societal observations and cultural realities (ie. why girls rarely ask out, why women prefer bigger men...etc) and they were accused of making sexist generalizations.
So here we go, clearly a lot of guys think this thread is sexist and offensive too, so far 5 guys in this thread alone sensed it is sexist, are we all ret*ds?


I do think it is sexist. I am not offended by it. I just think the original poster came to the wrong conclusion.



Last edited by em_tsuj on 13 Jul 2014, 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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13 Jul 2014, 6:33 pm

em_tsuj wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ A lot of guys made threads based on societal observations and cultural realities (ie. why girls rarely ask out, why women prefer bigger men...etc) and they were accused of making sexist generalizations.
So here we go, clearly a lot of guys think this thread is sexist and offensive too, so far 5 guys in this thread alone sensed it is sexist, are we all ret*ds?


I do think it is sexist. I am not offended by it. I just the original poster came to the wrong conclusion.


Me too, tarantella's double standard never offends me, it just entertains me.
But other members felt offended.



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13 Jul 2014, 6:42 pm

"There is more pressure on men to _____" -- not sexist.
"Men _____ because ____ " -- probably sexist.
"There is more pressure on women to shave their legs" - not sexist.
"Women ______ because ______" -- probably sexist.

It'd also likely help if there were some attention to the purpose of the post.



tarantella64
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13 Jul 2014, 6:49 pm

For reference, I'm reposting the original post:

Quote:
So I'm reading all these threads about the pain of rejection and anger/bewilderment about having to go find women and make the first move, and suddenly it hits me: jesus, if I believed my value in the world had to do with having a man, and that it was imperative that I get me one, any acceptable one, so that I was forever on the prowl, I'd feel horrible too. Because of course men would reject me left and right.

I get horniness (I'm a middle-aged woman, believe me, we know), and I get loneliness (you want lonely? Have a toddler as your lone dinner companion for two years solid, you have to be lonely and responsible simultaneously), but I feel no social pressure to find a man. There isn't any imperative directing me to go learn the game and game the women till I win. So I wonder, if that were removed from young men's set of beliefs -- get women or be loser, be rated on quality of woman you can get -- how much fear of women, and anger at women, would evaporate?

If the ability to get dates/attract women played no role at all in your perceived social standing, guys, how do you think this would affect how you feel about women?


Okay, so are you saying that it is not extremely common for young men to believe that if they haven't got a girlfriend they're a loser, and furthermore that they're being "rated" on the quality of the woman they can attract?

Let's deal with that please without leaping to, "BUT WOMEN!" For one thing, that's not the question. If you want to argue with me about the relative pressures on men and women to be seen publicly to be coupled up, I'm happy to do that someplace else, but that's not what I'm asking about here.



em_tsuj
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13 Jul 2014, 7:05 pm

tarantella64 wrote:
For reference, I'm reposting the original post:

Quote:
So I'm reading all these threads about the pain of rejection and anger/bewilderment about having to go find women and make the first move, and suddenly it hits me: jesus, if I believed my value in the world had to do with having a man, and that it was imperative that I get me one, any acceptable one, so that I was forever on the prowl, I'd feel horrible too. Because of course men would reject me left and right.

I get horniness (I'm a middle-aged woman, believe me, we know), and I get loneliness (you want lonely? Have a toddler as your lone dinner companion for two years solid, you have to be lonely and responsible simultaneously), but I feel no social pressure to find a man. There isn't any imperative directing me to go learn the game and game the women till I win. So I wonder, if that were removed from young men's set of beliefs -- get women or be loser, be rated on quality of woman you can get -- how much fear of women, and anger at women, would evaporate?

If the ability to get dates/attract women played no role at all in your perceived social standing, guys, how do you think this would affect how you feel about women?


Okay, so are you saying that it is not extremely common for young men to believe that if they haven't got a girlfriend they're a loser, and furthermore that they're being "rated" on the quality of the woman they can attract?

Let's deal with that please without leaping to, "BUT WOMEN!" For one thing, that's not the question. If you want to argue with me about the relative pressures on men and women to be seen publicly to be coupled up, I'm happy to do that someplace else, but that's not what I'm asking about here.


Sorry, I cannot help but bring women into consideration. I don't see this as a male issue. I see just as many young women desperate to attract boyfriends and being peer pressured into it by their female peers. It is a human thing, not something that differs along gender lines. I think it is an adolescent thing too. My experience as an adult is that most other adults don't care about each other sex lives enough to do a lot of peer pressure stuff, making someone feel like a "loser" if they don't have a mate. They are too busy living their own lives, trying to make enough money to survive or deal with their relationships. The pressure as an adult seems to me like it is more internal. You see your friends getting married and having babies and you feel left out. This is true for both genders.



Last edited by em_tsuj on 13 Jul 2014, 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tarantella64
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13 Jul 2014, 7:06 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ A lot of guys made threads based on societal observations and cultural realities (ie. why girls rarely ask out, why women prefer bigger men...etc) and they were accused of making sexist generalizations.
So here we go, clearly a lot of guys think this thread is sexist and offensive too, so far 5 guys in this thread alone sensed it is sexist, are we all ret*ds?


When those generalizations have been made, even when many women showed up on the thread to say, "No, I don't care whether a guy's tall or not, I've dated short men," or "I don't care if a guy doesn't make a lot of money, I've dated unemployed men," or any permutation of "that's wrong," it's simply been ignored, and the myth repeated as a way of salving the wounds of rejection by making women out to be shallow and cruel. And yes, that's sexist.

If you are saying that social pressure is *not* part of why guys seek women, and become aggressive in asking-out techniques, or feel obliged to go out there and try, try again, asking and risking rejection, then there we go, done. But I'll be asking why, then, all these guys on this forum keep posting and saying they feel like losers without girlfriends or sexual experience.