Friendzone

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The only reason I'd be uneasy about dating a woman in a desperate situation of poverty (assuming she's not a criminal, and, for the record, I wouldn't consider her one for victimless "crimes", like having been a prostitute) is that I'd feel especially hard-pressed to prove I'm not taking advantage of her. It'd be all too easy to argue she'd never give me the time of the day if she weren't in dire straits.

Edit -- Tpyo.

Last edited by Spiderpig on 20 Jan 2016, 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why do you think she would argue that point?
I'm a poor middle aged woman on a disability pension. Frankly if a man took interest in me, I wouldn't question his charity.

Except, in the vast majority of cases, the successful women are the ones who do the turning down, as it befits their status.

As Hopper said, words matter. In part, because they convey attitudes - which, in a situation like this, Really matter since at least half of why someone may strike out is due to nothing more than their attitude, approach, and expectations.

The original post essentially read that you feel that if you like someone, they are obligated to like you back; and to not do so is the ultimate betrayal. All of which is what lead us down the current rabbit-hole.
However, your last two posts sound more like 'here's who i am and here's what i'm doing, but it's not working...any tips?' Which would take the conversation (as it would any relationship) in a completely different direction.

If what you do seek is suggestions, given how far we are into the current conversation's focus, it may be of benefit to start a new thread, worded similar to your recent posts.

Not always... Not always at all.
And there are times, i speak from direct experience, where the woman earning more is historically and repeatedly enough of a point of contention in relationships/dating, that they may stop openly considering those who make less, simply to avoid repeating this..again..

I've met quite a few successful women who give a crap about 'their status' ..they figure, they make enough money that money's not an issue..or rather it shouldn't be. But enter relationship, and suddenly it is.

My ultimate point there was just that once again, there are posts that seem to be saying how much easier it is to be female. And, my point - for any such statement, there's a corollary. None of this is easy for anyone. Male or female.

Last edited by 100000fireflies on 20 Jan 2016, 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Others will on your behalf

As Hopper said, words matter. In part, because they convey attitudes - which, in a situation like this, Really matter since at least half of why someone may strike out is due to nothing more than their attitude, approach, and expectations.

The original post essentially read that you feel that if you like someone, they are obligated to like you back; and to not do so is the ultimate betrayal. All of which is what lead us down the current rabbit-hole.
However, your last two posts sound more like 'here's who i am and here's what i'm doing, but it's not working...any tips?' Which would take the conversation (as it would any relationship) in a completely different direction.

If what you do seek is suggestions, given how far we are into the current conversation's focus, it may be of benefit to start a new thread, worded similar to your recent posts.[/quote]

Actually thats not what the original post said, I was heated yes so it is easy to mistaken that. However I was heated at frustration from failing to understand how to actually make my intent clear in friendships known before I put myself in a position where I have feelings for someone who only likes me as a friend.
I don't know what you are talking about obligated, if you chose to not read the entire forum them please don't respond at all.

Do you realize how dehumanizing it is for me to hear that from you. You are so tied up in your dogma that you can't think of anything else.

I was trying to be supportive and do not appreciate the snap.
I said that was how the original post Read - which Read very differently from your following posts, but nonetheless, was the first post and thus lead us down a discussion - that later appeared isn't what you were trying for and doesn't seem to be going near what you were intending. Hence my saying that because we were so far in this other conversation, but you still seem to wish to get some suggestions, it may be worthwhile to start a new thread.

They always forget the corollaries. I mean, the complaints are usually fairly specific ones then universalised to 'all women' and 'all men' in such a way that never really bears out. But if they're going to insist on such things, it would be nice if they'd remember the corollaries.

The idea that men have to ask women out has the corollary that women have to be asked out. They have to wait. At best they can seem ever more desperate as they try to get the attention of someone they like in the hope they notice them and take an interest in them and ask them out. Some people they have no interest in, and who may well clearly have little interest in them, may ask them out and they're expected to find ego-soothing ways to politely decline. Or, no-one may ask them out. It boggles my mind that some would think such an arrangement 'easy'. At least the men in this picture get some agency, however much of a mixed blessing it is.

remember: my problem is an example of an unfair universal situation and there's nothing to be done except complain until I get an apology. Your problem is a statistical anomaly and anyway look at all these ways women have it great.



As you say, this stuff is hard all round. It's like that Gore Vidal quip - 'it's not enough for me to win, someone has to lose'. Here we have, 'it's not enough for me to have a problem. It has to be the problem'.

I'll refrain from joining this debate that blew up overnight, and try to give the OP some more advice.

OP, here are my suggestions:

Style of dress: The office attire might not work. You do dress nice from the sounds of it, but far too formal.

There's a difference between dressing 'fancy' and dressing 'formal' in my opinion. Fancy means flashy, snazzy, formal means serious, mature.

As a suggestion I suggest you dress like I am in my profile pic. I do have normal board shorts and t-shirts but when going out in public I wear cargo slacks, cargo jeans, black dress pants, black dress slacks, etc. w/belt, polo t-shirts and over that I wear diamond sweater vests or sweater, and finally blue cap or fedora. Essentially the '40s Jazz look.

Be careful about the fedora though. There's a nasty stereotype about fedora wearers and I've found they're extremely hard to pull off and I easily look 10x better with the blue cap.

It's your choice if you choose to dress this way though.

You could also go for the polo shirt, cargo shorts, scarf look. Just remember fancy ≠ formal and you'll be fine.

Have you tried clubs/groups for your hobbies and interests? You sound like you have very 'pop' interests that tie in with geek culture, which is very popular today. There's opportunity everywhere for you (libraries, anime groups, cosplay, conventions, comic book stores, etc.)

How many female friends do you have and have you asked them for any help in meeting women to get to know?

You misunderstood. I was arguing semantics with Retrogamer. He was claiming that Aurora was saying that, when that was not the case.

Irregardless of what Aurora actually meant, RetroGamer's condescending and patronizing attitude was absolutely unnecessary.

"Lol, you think all guys want is sex? That's so cute

Maybe when you grow up you'll realize that plenty of guys want to have a fulfilling relationship."

Some of the women on WP have already complainted about feeling alienated on these forums.

Quite possibly it's the reason Aurora hasn't made a post since she posted the meme.

Yes it was wrong of me to be so patronising. Yet why are we all exempt when patronising certain other posters?

Even Aurura's meme itself was patronising. Is a patronising attitude allowable for her?

Except she wasn't being patronizing. The OP explicitly stated that they enter into friendships thinking the woman should eventually want a further relationship. There aren't sadistic women(well maybe a handful) out there that just make friends with guys knowing full well that they've friendzoned them. Most/all are just friends, it's not their fault he has his heart on his sleeve, if that is how banebears experiences have gone. It's just bad planning and you're asking to get hurt that way. He shouldn't feel angry at these women. They've most likely done nothing wrong.

That others would think a poor woman dating a well off guy was being taken Advantage of?
Didn't say I would think it just that other people would. Same as when a 18 year old dates a older guy. Not sure how that'd dehumanizing 0.o

I was only stating that society would. They probably do it behind your back or try to talk you out of dating him.
People are so accustomed to society norms they see anything outside of it with distrust.

I am sorry I upset you though