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My gf seems to be bothered that I am 'white and privileged'.

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ironpony
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20 Feb 2022, 1:09 am

I had to look up who Elizabeth Warren is, but she is not hugely close I would say, as she grew up in a white community around her mostly.



cyberdad
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20 Feb 2022, 1:18 am

ironpony wrote:
I had to look up who Elizabeth Warren is, but she is not hugely close I would say, as she grew up in a white community around her mostly.


Then she's not really close with the Canadian indigenous scene? sounds like she's adopted it.



ironpony
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20 Feb 2022, 1:28 am

Perhaps she adapted some of it afterwards, but she can tell that she is not white maybe even though she is not close, and therefore has a problem with white privilege just because she can still tell she is indigenous?



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20 Feb 2022, 1:37 am

cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I like everything else about her, it's just she is really touchy about these issues, and I hope she can agree to disagree. I can compromise to an extent, but I don't think I can change my opinions and believes fully. So as long as she can agree to disagree to an extent.


Just out curiosity is she close to her native heritage? or is she more an 'Elizabeth Warren" type in that she is 1/100 or 1/1000 indigenous and has kind of adopted the identity?


Cringe.
This is the sort of gatekeeping that if you're not indigenous you probably shouldn't engage towards indigenous people.


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20 Feb 2022, 2:34 am

funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I like everything else about her, it's just she is really touchy about these issues, and I hope she can agree to disagree. I can compromise to an extent, but I don't think I can change my opinions and believes fully. So as long as she can agree to disagree to an extent.


Just out curiosity is she close to her native heritage? or is she more an 'Elizabeth Warren" type in that she is 1/100 or 1/1000 indigenous and has kind of adopted the identity?


Cringe.
This is the sort of gatekeeping that if you're not indigenous you probably shouldn't engage towards indigenous people.


Yeah I know, but honestly it's not for my benefit, ironpony is in a relationship with this girl and I am trying to help him make sense of his transgression and understand where his g/f is coming from in relation to her understanding of white privilege.

A white looking girl who has lived only among white people, who is dating a white man is not in a position to be lecturing ironpony having white privilege as she likely has benefited from it herself.



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20 Feb 2022, 2:46 am

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I like everything else about her, it's just she is really touchy about these issues, and I hope she can agree to disagree. I can compromise to an extent, but I don't think I can change my opinions and believes fully. So as long as she can agree to disagree to an extent.


Just out curiosity is she close to her native heritage? or is she more an 'Elizabeth Warren" type in that she is 1/100 or 1/1000 indigenous and has kind of adopted the identity?


Cringe.
This is the sort of gatekeeping that if you're not indigenous you probably shouldn't engage towards indigenous people.


Yeah I know, but honestly it's not for my benefit, ironpony is in a relationship with this girl and I am trying to help him make sense of his transgression and understand where his g/f is coming from in relation to her understanding of white privilege.

A white looking girl who has lived only among white people, who is dating a white man is not in a position to be lecturing ironpony having white privilege as she likely has benefited from it herself.


A white guy with no connections to indigenous cultures whatsoever isn't going to do his relationship with an indigenous woman any favours by telling her she isn't indigenous enough to qualify as indigenous. That's between her and people who aren't him and he might just end up finding out that her connections are firmer than he's aware of, not that they don't exist.

Being white-passing doesn't make her not count as indigenous. Dating a white guy doesn't make her count as not indigenous. Not growing up thoroughly emerged in indigenous culture doesn't make her not indigenous.

While different nations are entitled to define their membership as they see fit it's not uncommon for nations to have policies of openly welcoming those who can trace their ancestry to that nation to 'rejoin the circle' and embrace their heritage. People who aren't members of those nations have no right whatsoever to try to tell members of those nations that they're not "native enough" to actually count.

Getting butthurt over someone pointing out 'hey, you have blindspots' seems like more of a problem than having them pointed out.


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20 Feb 2022, 3:01 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Being white-passing doesn't make her not count as indigenous. Dating a white guy doesn't make her count as not indigenous. Not growing up thoroughly emerged in indigenous culture doesn't make her not indigenous.


Sure, it's her identity and she's entitled to feel that way. However lecturing her b/f over white privilege when she's a recipient of exactly the same benefits means she doesn't understand the concept,

A more appropriate way to discuss this with her b/f is to just point out he has "blindspots" rather than suddenly call him out for being "white". Sorry don't buy it.



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20 Feb 2022, 3:11 am

funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
I like everything else about her, it's just she is really touchy about these issues, and I hope she can agree to disagree. I can compromise to an extent, but I don't think I can change my opinions and believes fully. So as long as she can agree to disagree to an extent.


Just out curiosity is she close to her native heritage? or is she more an 'Elizabeth Warren" type in that she is 1/100 or 1/1000 indigenous and has kind of adopted the identity?


Cringe.
This is the sort of gatekeeping that if you're not indigenous you probably shouldn't engage towards indigenous people.


Yeah I know, but honestly it's not for my benefit, ironpony is in a relationship with this girl and I am trying to help him make sense of his transgression and understand where his g/f is coming from in relation to her understanding of white privilege.

A white looking girl who has lived only among white people, who is dating a white man is not in a position to be lecturing ironpony having white privilege as she likely has benefited from it herself.


A white guy with no connections to indigenous cultures whatsoever isn't going to do his relationship with an indigenous woman any favours by telling her she isn't indigenous enough to qualify as indigenous. That's between her and people who aren't him and he might just end up finding out that her connections are firmer than he's aware of, not that they don't exist.

Being white-passing doesn't make her not count as indigenous. Dating a white guy doesn't make her count as not indigenous. Not growing up thoroughly emerged in indigenous culture doesn't make her not indigenous.

While different nations are entitled to define their membership as they see fit it's not uncommon for nations to have policies of openly welcoming those who can trace their ancestry to that nation to 'rejoin the circle' and embrace their heritage. People who aren't members of those nations have no right whatsoever to try to tell members of those nations that they're not "native enough" to actually count.

Getting butthurt over someone pointing out 'hey, you have blindspots' seems like more of a problem than having them pointed out.

But it’s not an excuse for being a hypocrite, either. If you rail against white privilege but enjoy the benefits of it, that’s a problem. And it doesn’t even matter if she’s full-blooded or just 0.0001, she’s dating a white guy who is supposedly privileged.

I don’t think the relationship has any serious problems. Just a general observation here: I wouldn’t date anyone that I’d want to change—or who would wan to change me. CRT demands an admission of guilt, basically. Even though you might never intend to change a thing, the whole point of admitting you’re wrong about something, whether within CRT or not, is for things to change at some point.



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20 Feb 2022, 3:14 am

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Being white-passing doesn't make her not count as indigenous. Dating a white guy doesn't make her count as not indigenous. Not growing up thoroughly emerged in indigenous culture doesn't make her not indigenous.


Sure, it's her identity and she's entitled to feel that way. However lecturing her b/f over white privilege when she's a recipient of exactly the same benefits means she doesn't understand the concept,

A more appropriate way to discuss this with her b/f is to just point out he has "blindspots" rather than suddenly call him out for being "white". Sorry don't buy it.


Her approach might not be the best or there might be details missing. Either way advising him to pick a fight with her probably isn't going to lead to a positive outcome, especially if it's handled without much nuance or understanding.


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20 Feb 2022, 3:15 am

AngelRho wrote:
If you rail against white privilege but enjoy the benefits of it, that’s a problem.


You criticize society's flaws and yet you continue to exist within said society, that's a problem.

I see. By that logic white passing relatives shouldn't speak up over differences in treatment they've experienced compared to not white passing relatives. That's absurd logic.


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cyberdad
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20 Feb 2022, 4:42 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Either way advising him to pick a fight with her probably isn't going to lead to a positive outcome, especially if it's handled without much nuance or understanding.


I'm not actually asking him to pick a fight, I am asking him to politely ask his g/f to explain what she mean't, If you read my advice to ironpony, it was options. In none of them am I asking him to try and change her,



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20 Feb 2022, 5:34 am

funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
If you rail against white privilege but enjoy the benefits of it, that’s a problem.


You criticize society's flaws and yet you continue to exist within said society, that's a problem.

I see. By that logic white passing relatives shouldn't speak up over differences in treatment they've experienced compared to not white passing relatives. That's absurd logic.

Exactly :lol:

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20 Feb 2022, 7:40 am

funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
If you rail against white privilege but enjoy the benefits of it, that’s a problem.


You criticize society's flaws and yet you continue to exist within said society, that's a problem.

I see. By that logic white passing relatives shouldn't speak up over differences in treatment they've experienced compared to not white passing relatives. That's absurd logic.

Straw man argument. I didn’t say that at all.

Of course it’s absurd, because you don’t choose the society you’re born into. Similarly, you don’t get to choose when you’re a victim of human trafficking or arranged marriage (assuming you don’t get a choice, that is, whether to break with tradition or whatever).

It’s not a matter of society, though. She could choose to date within her own race or culture. Nobody is forcing her to date a white guy. The argument could be made that she’s looting his privilege and betraying her own people. If she makes the CHOICE to date him and enjoys the upward mobility that comes with it AND complains about privilege, she should check her OWN privilege. It doesn’t make her a bad person. It just makes her a hypocrite.



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20 Feb 2022, 9:35 am

As this discussion has gone on for 10 days and 10 pages on the desktop site, let me give a different take on this.

She has come to realize that she's in this relationship and it has dawned on her that it would be difficult for her to leave. That doesn't mean she intends to leave, but she doubts her own level of commitment. Remember she is very young. She is thinking of things that might possibly jeopardize her long-term happiness if she ends up being with the OP for the rest of her life or at least a long time, and testing the relationship in this way.

I was in a relationship with somebody 6 years younger and from what she told me later, she was in the relationship mostly due to physical attraction but she had doubts as to whether I was the right life partner for her. One time I mentioned the War in Vietnam and she replied by saying that I should know she was too young to remember that (I was born in 1952 and she was born in 1959) with the implication that this could be a red flag in our relationship. She could have simply dumped me any time had she wished.

This is a good reason to simply not obsess over this type of thing. If the OP takes it in stride she'll probably move on to some other conversational topic.


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20 Feb 2022, 10:15 am

MaxE wrote:
As this discussion has gone on for 10 days and 10 pages on the desktop site, let me give a different take on this.

She has come to realize that she's in this relationship and it has dawned on her that it would be difficult for her to leave. That doesn't mean she intends to leave, but she doubts her own level of commitment. Remember she is very young. She is thinking of things that might possibly jeopardize her long-term happiness if she ends up being with the OP for the rest of her life or at least a long time, and testing the relationship in this way.

I was in a relationship with somebody 6 years younger and from what she told me later, she was in the relationship mostly due to physical attraction but she had doubts as to whether I was the right life partner for her. One time I mentioned the War in Vietnam and she replied by saying that I should know she was too young to remember that (I was born in 1952 and she was born in 1959) with the implication that this could be a red flag in our relationship. She could have simply dumped me any time had she wished.

This is a good reason to simply not obsess over this type of thing. If the OP takes it in stride she'll probably move on to some other conversational topic.


I agree. This is a major sh-t test on her part.



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20 Feb 2022, 10:23 am

rse92 wrote:
MaxE wrote:
As this discussion has gone on for 10 days and 10 pages on the desktop site, let me give a different take on this.

She has come to realize that she's in this relationship and it has dawned on her that it would be difficult for her to leave. That doesn't mean she intends to leave, but she doubts her own level of commitment. Remember she is very young. She is thinking of things that might possibly jeopardize her long-term happiness if she ends up being with the OP for the rest of her life or at least a long time, and testing the relationship in this way.

I was in a relationship with somebody 6 years younger and from what she told me later, she was in the relationship mostly due to physical attraction but she had doubts as to whether I was the right life partner for her. One time I mentioned the War in Vietnam and she replied by saying that I should know she was too young to remember that (I was born in 1952 and she was born in 1959) with the implication that this could be a red flag in our relationship. She could have simply dumped me any time had she wished.

This is a good reason to simply not obsess over this type of thing. If the OP takes it in stride she'll probably move on to some other conversational topic.


I agree. This is a major sh-t test on her part.

I wouldn't call this a s**t test, I just wanted to say that the political issues aren't really relevant. The OP should simply express his intention to do better if he is asked and otherwise not overreact or dwell on the topic, in particular he should not raise this topic on his own.


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