Nice Guys suck...

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It's all right. I just didn't want you to be mad at me.



Schopenhauer's World-Will (which he called the "Objectification of Will in Unconscious Nature") is actually a very simple and beautiful concept. The laws of nature that we obey with our bodies and brains are the same laws obeyed by falling apples and electrons orbiting their nuclei. Though we have different bodies, our laws of nature unite us with each other and with the universe. Some believe that our consciousness has its source in the mathematical intelligence of these laws.

I think this is BS. Women will throw out every excuse in the bag to not date sexually/fiscally attractive men.


Want a girlfriend? Get muscles and get money.

OK, let's try this again, for any takers; is there any reason, philosophically, that another person A's suffering from loneliness should take precedence over person B's suffering from being with them(person A)?

I believe suffering deserves to be attended to; the question is, which attention is really best.

Looking at it logically,
of course not. B can't be
happy with A, but A might
find someone to be happy
with, without causing misery.

I'd like to clarify something for all of you. I'm not disputing the choice to be with more attractive people. I'm just saying that the pain of the unchosen should not be ignored. That's what I meant in my essay when I said that we ought to "beautify nature by eliminating the suffering schizophrenia causes."

There may be advanced scientific solutions (genetic engineering, for example). Let's keep an open mind and not snub the less attractive in our grand purpose to better the human way of life.

Edit: Aspiedude, I think you're being unkind to both men who have trouble building muscle (ectomorphs) and men who have difficulty maintaining high-class jobs (for instance, due to mental illness).

Pain is a motivator. Try emotional blunting and complacency. Not better.

Can you elaborate?

Pain is a motivator if you want to live life the hard way , that is, if there is any other way

I shouldn't need an excuse not to date anybody.

Exactly. But it comes full circle there is another way but it is not easy to start with, at least not for me.

When you present "sexual selection" as the root cause of suffering, as if freedom to choose one's sexual partners is the problem that needs to be solved, it makes me very leery.

So. . . what range of solutions to the suffering of schizophrenia do you suggest are acceptable? Genetic engineering that would eliminate the disease is obviously something that should be looked into. As far as I'm concerned, elimination of "sexual selection" is not.

I'm not disputing that freedom to be with more attractive people, nor did I say that sexual selection is the root cause of suffering in general, nor do I suggest that it should be abolished altogether. But there may be other ways to remedy the pain that results from it. Oceans cause rain, but we need not dry up the oceans; we may build shelters. Similarly, we may find ways to minimize the pain of rejection that don't interfere with sexual selection itself.



There is something about my essay that I think may have bothered you: my decision to call the selection process cruel and selfish. I want to make it clear to some of my readers that it's not a clean, painless process and that I understand about the heartbreak and suffering that result from it. I acknowledge the obvious benefits of the process (fifth paragraph), but if I didn't add these words, I might've looked like Hitler to these people. But I'm open to your suggestions.

After I skipped work one day, I had a nightmare. I met my old high school crush, and we hugged. I embraced her more and she fell over, as if by fainting. When she stood up, she started punching me. I felt extreme pain in my heart later in the dream when I looked in a mirror, and this heart pain remained when I awoke. I was so nauseated that I couldn't go to school that day, and I nearly retched. A few months later I began retching every day, and I have been for about one and a half years now. You're hearing this from a 24-year-old virgin who has understood how sexual selection works for a long time.

Last edited by MikeH106 on 18 Aug 2007, 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This who schizophrenia/ugliness is frankly tosh, you can say that about anything. I know a very pretty schizophrenic. Also my cousin is schizophrenic. He has a young son and gets by.

I'm happy for your cousin, 0_equals_true. But Shaner's theory isn't a general claim about all schizophrenics and what they can and can't do; it's a theory about the nature of schizophrenia.

Gah. Some of that list sounds very like me.

Apparently I can't win.

Feh...

Due respect what evidence do you have?

Obviously if you suffer from evasive psychosis and delusions it is going to cause difficulty with relationships. It doesn't take a genius to work this out.

This pretty schizophrenic I'm talking about doesn’t have any difficulty getting sex. But because she is going through the onset of the illness in her early twenties she is vulnerable. It is clear that she cannot have a realistic view of a person. At one time she would want to settle down with some stranger than then would change in a matter of hours and be completely paranoid about the person. It is not going to be easy but some can control it with drug or even mind over matter as in the case of my cousin.

Don’t just think of schizophrenia as purely unattractive from the other person’s points of view. Some people do fall in love with schizophrenics it is just tough living with it.

Schizophrenia being the ultimate ugliness is stretching it too far, like I said you can say that about many conditions. There is a huge stigma surrounding the illness, and it it is hard to live with.

Last edited by 0_equals_true on 19 Aug 2007, 8:19 am, edited 2 times in total.