Board index › Coping in life › Love and Dating

Don't trust ANYTHING women say.

Page 10 of 14 [ 224 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

05 Feb 2008, 5:20 pm

JohnHopkins wrote:
Basically, you are descriminating. You are prejudiced. Hell, you're damn near a bigot. And that is one of the things I hate most in the world.

Are you saying that in order to not be prejudiced, I have to open myself up to being hurt again? No thanks. The past times I've been hurt are just that: in the past. There's nothing I can do to reverse what's already happened. That much I can understand and put behind me as best I can, but at least I can prevent it from happening again.

And at least you're upfront with not liking me. That's better than all the people that put up a facade (aka lie) of liking me...



Dishman
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 81
Location: Seattle area

05 Feb 2008, 5:25 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
JohnHopkins wrote:
Basically, you are descriminating. You are prejudiced. Hell, you're damn near a bigot. And that is one of the things I hate most in the world.

Are you saying that in order to not be prejudiced, I have to open myself up to being hurt again? No thanks. The past times I've been hurt are just that: in the past. There's nothing I can do to reverse what's already happened. That much I can understand and put behind me as best I can, but at least I can prevent it from happening again.

And at least you're upfront with not liking me. That's better than all the people that put up a facade (aka lie) of liking me...


You can also prevent anything good from ever happening.

Your choice. You can surround yourself with anger and hatred, and it's all you'll ever know.

It's a corollary of:
"A man who falls in love with himself will have no rivals."



ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

05 Feb 2008, 5:42 pm

Dishman wrote:
You can also prevent anything good from ever happening.

Such as? I have my 2 friends... people that, over the years, I have been able to trust in most matters, as I know them well enough to know that they are of the small group that don't lie to me. And before you bring up women, even if I was opened up, I would still not get anywhere, so that point is moot...

Quote:
Your choice. You can surround yourself with anger and hatred, and it's all you'll ever know.

I don't fault any one person for the trait of lying. The only person I hate for being a liar is myself (as I've previously stated). Other than that, I don't make judgement calls about a person's entire character just because they happen to be a liar.

Perhaps I've made some mistakes in wording what I said before... it's not the liar I hate, it's the lie.

Quote:
It's a corollary of:
"A man who falls in love with himself will have no rivals."

Except I don't love myself... I hate myself for being the very essence of lying that I hate...



Dishman
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 81
Location: Seattle area

05 Feb 2008, 5:56 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
Dishman wrote:
You can also prevent anything good from ever happening.

Such as? I have my 2 friends... people that, over the years, I have been able to trust in most matters, as I know them well enough to know that they are of the small group that don't lie to me. And before you bring up women, even if I was opened up, I would still not get anywhere, so that point is moot...

Quote:
Your choice. You can surround yourself with anger and hatred, and it's all you'll ever know.

I don't fault any one person for the trait of lying. The only person I hate for being a liar is myself (as I've previously stated). Other than that, I don't make judgement calls about a person's entire character just because they happen to be a liar.

Perhaps I've made some mistakes in wording what I said before... it's not the liar I hate, it's the lie.

Quote:
It's a corollary of:
"A man who falls in love with himself will have no rivals."

Except I don't love myself... I hate myself for being the very essence of lying that I hate...


The ambiguity was mine, and deliberate. I didn't name names.

This is your life.

Take a deep breath, walk away for a while, or something. Read my words again later.



D1nk0
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,587

05 Feb 2008, 8:33 pm

Good grief! ToadOfSteel and Dishman take your biquering somewhere else and get BACK ON TOPIC please.



Dishman
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 81
Location: Seattle area

05 Feb 2008, 8:53 pm

D1nk0 wrote:
Quote:
Yes, men usually learn from experience that they have everything to lose by asking directly, it will most likely annoy her and you can't trust the answer you get. Thus it seems we're always to blame; whether we are so 'stupid' as to actually ask or if we fail to read her mind correctly, it's always our fault, it's never hers.


*sigh* EXACTLY! :x Thats what really pisses me off about women's behaviour and in particular what zee has been saying in this thread! I dont think that women are hardwired to be this way; I really think that always blaming men-EVEN IF its clearly the womans fault is a learned behaviour. Thats what I wont all YOU women here to get through your heads:STOP blaming men for everything! Take some f***ing responsibility for your OWN misgivings and mistakes when it comes to this sort of thing.
I wonder if this is somehow a byproduct of feminism-a lot of women(Especially the younger ones)are very adamant about their victim status which conferrs a sense of entitlement. Now they can scapegoat men for whatever problems they have in relationships and sex and if a man speaks out about his problems they can just put the blame on him no matter what.Way to go ladies..... :roll:


"It's always the male's fault."
"Of course you're wrong, you're a guy."

I don't know when those lines first became popular, but I've been hearing them for at least 25 years, and they didn't seem new then. I no longer find them to be acceptable.

As for the question of "hardwired", I don't know enough to give a definitive answer. I've got far too small a sample set for that, which is to say detailed observations on one male and second-hand data on other people. What I do see is a combination of emotional and hormonal response sets playing a role in shaping one's personality. Some patterns of behavior are rewarded with "feeling good", while others are punished with "feeling bad" or some form of pain. We still have free will and can choose otherwise. Most of us are going to end up with some fairly predictable patterns of behavior.



zee
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,292
Location: on a cloud

06 Feb 2008, 4:16 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
zee wrote:
[Well, I was talking about one-night stands, yet you talk about this woman is if she had long-term potential, and also you've known her for a while.
So let me clarify my hypothesis: if a woman who you didn't know asked you out, let's say she's your age and not bad-looking, would you say yes?

Just to reiterate I would not have a one night stand with her. Because of her maturity but also lack of chemistry is a big thing.

I'd probably be in shock lol. Ideally I'd ask them on a date. I do have some difficulty with not knowing what they are like, but I guess that is a problem I have to deal with.

Um I have a strange thing that I don't like straw/platinum blondes usually. I like women that are a bit different looking form the cover girl standard. So these are preferences.

I don't really know what point you’re trying to make.


I see where you're going, 0_equals_true. You have standards, even for one night stands. Maybe it's just because you're younger and more idealistic than I am. But in any case, point taken.



zee
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,292
Location: on a cloud

06 Feb 2008, 4:23 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
My main "issue" (I don't consider it a persona issue, rather an issue the rest of society has) is that I don't like the concept of one-night stands (my "issue" comes from the fact that almost everyone else does)


Many people don't like the concept. But often, you don't plan for it to be a one-night stand. In the heat of the night you might think 'this is the beginning of something', but then when you wake up, you realize that wasn't the case.

ToadOfSteel wrote:
Anyway, as for your question: I would probably do the same thing that would happen if I was in a position to ask someone out myself: I would seize up and not be able to speak or move...

What if you got to know them better? Or what if you wrote it down on a note? Or practiced what you were going to say beforehand?
I admit I don't like 'confronting' people in any way, but I can still do it, especially if I'm prepared. If I know what I'm going to say, then I manage to do it, even if I sound a bit awkward when trying to discuss it, ie grabbing for words and stuff. I mean, being an Aspie and being painfully shy are 2 different things.
I wonder if the latter is the real issue with some of the people here?



D1nk0
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,587

06 Feb 2008, 4:33 pm

zee wrote:

Quote:
In other words, women should change how they act just to please you.


Well zee, why should I change how I act just to please them? Dont you GET it? It takes 2 to tange-so go figure :wink:
But you'll probably overlook this post intentionally-I know how you work by now. :lol:



merr
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 515

06 Feb 2008, 5:53 pm

Dishman wrote:
"It's always the male's fault."
"Of course you're wrong, you're a guy."

I don't know when those lines first became popular, but I've been hearing them for at least 25 years, and they didn't seem new then. I no longer find them to be acceptable.

Am I the only one who RARELY , if ever, hears those words against men? :? I've only heard women say "all men just want sex", which is true to an extent. Or that "Rape is the man's fault" implying the guy who raped the girl, not all men.



pbcoll
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,892
Location: the City of Palaces

06 Feb 2008, 6:29 pm

merr wrote:
Dishman wrote:
"It's always the male's fault."
"Of course you're wrong, you're a guy."

I don't know when those lines first became popular, but I've been hearing them for at least 25 years, and they didn't seem new then. I no longer find them to be acceptable.

Am I the only one who RARELY , if ever, hears those words against men? :? I've only heard women say "all men just want sex", which is true to an extent. Or that "Rape is the man's fault" implying the guy who raped the girl, not all men.


I've never heard it said explicitly, but often it's implied or seems to be an underlying assumption. Of course rape is the rapist's fault, that's a completely different issue.


_________________
I am the steppenwolf that never learned to dance. (Sedaka)

El hombre es una bestia famélica, envidiosa e insaciable. (Francisco Tario)

I'm male by the way (yes, I know my avatar is misleading).


D1nk0
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,587

06 Feb 2008, 7:01 pm

Yeah Ive certainly heard PLENTY of women say all men just want sex..... :roll:
But seriously Ladies, dont all(or at least most)women just want sex too? I really hate it how so many women in American culture go around pretending like they dont really want sex :x . Thats the motivation for their farcical claim that ALL men ONLY want sex(or even most men). The truth of the matter is that women DO want sex!. If you thought that women never want casual sex, well, you're obviously NOT a woman then :lol: .NT Women deliberately pretend that they dont want sex at all or as much as men do because they use Sex to Manipulative men. Im told women do have more control over their sex drive and use that control to essentially trade "sexual currency" for favors from men. Thats what is meant when people talk about women "sleeping their way to the top".



zee
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,292
Location: on a cloud

06 Feb 2008, 9:26 pm

pbcoll wrote:
If she was in love with me, and I wasn't, I would turn her down - even if she was in none of these categories.

How can you be in love with someone who doesn't love you back? It's not possible. Did you mean that you would turn down a woman who was after you, instead of you being after her? That only supports my argument that men should be the ones to take initiative.


pbcoll wrote:
zee wrote:
pbcoll wrote:
Maybe not you. But in any case it's unreliable - a guy might make an effort to get to know you with ulterior motives, including sex.


Of course, that's true... but how much of an effort will he make, considering there are many other women he could have? Most guys will only go so far. Anyway, that's our problem. Are you suggesting we should date spineless men because the chance we'll be taken advantage of is smaller?


I said nothing of the sort. I'm arguing for honesty, not for dating spineless men. And it's not just your problem, it makes life harder for men, especially men that have difficulties in reading non-verbal cues.


So, because your life is harder, you want women to make it easier for you? Is that what you're saying?


pbcoll wrote:
Let me give you an example: I know a guy who is head over heels in love with a girl (it's not just a crush, he really is in love) but he knows he has zero chance - she is taken for the long haul, and he knows it. That doesn't make him stop loving her, and it didn't prevent him from falling in love. I can understand his predicament, because when I got to know her I could feel myself being attracted to her in that way (she's not even my type in looks), and so have taken to avoid her altogether, to avoid getting emotionally attached to her. You can't love someone and not want her to love you back, but you can love someone you know there is no chance of a relationship with.


Well, I understand that, but now I wonder why it came up... she's taken, end of story, right? To think that you have a chance is an insult to her, it's like saying 'you made the wrong choice'.



zee
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,292
Location: on a cloud

06 Feb 2008, 9:30 pm

Dishman wrote:
After mulling this over for quite a while, I think I've found what was troubling me:

zee wrote:
GrantZilla wrote:
If a woman is in bed with you, that is about the MOST BLATANT sign she wants you. If you put the moves on, and she rejects, then you know right there she's just a tease, and why waste your time with a tease.

If a woman is not attracted to a man she should not be be getting into bed with them. That is just stupid. It is even more stupid if they are shocked that the man puts the moves on them.


That's not true at all, just because you're on a bed, doesn't mean you want anything sexual. It's just another way of being close to someone, is lying around with them, sharing a bed. Sex can happen anywhere, if someone is attracted to you physically, it's their words and actions, not their location, that will tell you.


Inviting someone into bed with you can be fairly overt and direct, at least if there is any hint of romantic interest.

Climbing into bed can reasonably be taken as acceptance of the overt offer.

From that point, both parties can still reject the arrangement. It's possible there's been a serious miscommunication. In general, though, the social norm seems to be that there is an agreement to some kind of intimacy.

Maybe some simple rules:
If someone may have an interest in you, don't invite them into bed unless you're either prepared to go further or intend to cause them harm.
If someone may have an interest in you, don't accept an invitation into bed unless you're either prepared to go further or intend to cause them harm.

Not following these rules could reasonably be considered "reckless disregard".


How about, just keep communicating once you're in bed? I don't see why this is such an issue, like a bed is some sort of train you board, and then can't get off.



D1nk0
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,587

06 Feb 2008, 9:37 pm

So zee, you dont see why this is such an issue, eH? :roll:

Dishman-Good Advice. Stay out of bed unless you're Both interested and Both ready to go all the way.



zee
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,292
Location: on a cloud

06 Feb 2008, 9:42 pm

D1nk0 wrote:
Quote:
Yes, men usually learn from experience that they have everything to lose by asking directly, it will most likely annoy her and you can't trust the answer you get. Thus it seems we're always to blame; whether we are so 'stupid' as to actually ask or if we fail to read her mind correctly, it's always our fault, it's never hers.


*sigh* EXACTLY! :x Thats what really pisses me off about women's behaviour and in particular what zee has been saying in this thread! I dont think that women are hardwired to be this way; I really think that always blaming men-EVEN IF its clearly the womans fault is a learned behaviour. Thats what I wont all YOU women here to get through your heads:STOP blaming men for everything! Take some f***ing responsibility for your OWN misgivings and mistakes when it comes to this sort of thing.
I wonder if this is somehow a byproduct of feminism-a lot of women(Especially the younger ones)are very adamant about their victim status which conferrs a sense of entitlement. Now they can scapegoat men for whatever problems they have in relationships and sex and if a man speaks out about his problems they can just put the blame on him no matter what.Way to go ladies..... :roll:


Look, I don't blame men for my problems... when did I say that? Maybe you're misreading what I've said. All I'm saying is that if a man doesn't make an effort, then he's not worth my time. That's not blaming, it's just a statement. You keep saying how you prefer a partner who is honest and direct, then that's your preference... I'm allowed to have preferences of my own. We're not talking about equal rights in applying for a job here, we're talking about love. People can't change how they feel, or what they find attractive or not.