Women: pickiness and relationship type

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Ahhh....now I get your point - you want to know how attractive you have to be to get laid. Sorry dude, the only absolute answer to that question lies at either end of the continuum: if you're Brad Pitt, George Clooney, etc., good looking, then you're probably going to have your pick of the ladies (whether it's for an evening or a lifetime). If you're Quasimoto, you're pretty much not going to get anyone (for an evening or a lifetime).

And that leaves the vast majority of the male population somewhere in between. How attractive a man is to a woman is often very dependent on intangibles like personality, intelligence, charm - just as much (and often more) than physical characteristics. Whether a woman is looking for a casual sexual relationship or a long term, committed relationship is really dependent on the woman, her values, her goals (and sometimes her level of intoxication). There's just no quantifiable metric or formula available to answer your question.

Hope has this right.

Also one has to realize, most relationships START off casual and short term, they only evolve into something long term if there is personal compatibility. I think one of the main problems with some of the guys here on this board is that they want a LTR without realizing there is several steps they have to go through just to get there (dating, casual relationship, short term relationship, etc) and that it takes alot of work, communication and chemstry for something to turn into a long term or lifetime commitment, be it marriage or something else.


I will say looks don't play into it...compatibility has less to do with looks than it does to do with a variety of factors.

True that, starygrrl! I've been fairly amazed at the number of guys here who hold the heartfelt belief that they should marry the first girl they date. That amost never, ever happens. Many men here believe they should be in love with someone before they've even dated. (And really, whatever romantic feelings you may have for a person before you've dated are based on expectation, not experience - and that's what makes people mistake infatuation for love.) Like starygrrl said, love takes a lot of hard work, and that work isn't done overnight.

That's why I try to be supportive when people suggest strategies that basically involve "kissing a lot of toads" - cause it's completely normal to date a lot of people before you find the "one" - sometimes you even marry a person or two before you do.

I don't know if i would be consideren picky or not...I guess it's just an attraction I feel that makes me even bother talking to someone. Some people I feel a friendly attraction to, some people more of a sexual attraction.

I've dated guys that were considered non-attractive to my friends, I've dated guys that every woman adored.... I married the guy that I just couldn't refuse. I still can't, actually; he fills my every sense in the way that he looks good, feels good, sounds good and smells good to me! I couldn't imagine us being friends without having a relationship, the tension would have killed me . So if he's attractive he would be dating material, for a night (though I've never been there) or a lifetime... I guess he'd have to be lifetime material to even have a chance for the night.

By the way; a guy who doesn't brush his teeth (well!! !) at least every day is petty gross to me too. I don't mind a little body fat, big noses or ears or tiny little fellas at all.

As for the OP's utterance that having a long relationship is a sacrifice; it is. But when you meet the right person it'll be worth the while. Besides; you can spend as much time together and in solitude as you want... my husband and I are both solitairy people, that's one of the reasons we get along so well!

Hope, what I meant was...a lot of guys would have a better chance of an attractive girl making a mistake (or what she considers a mistake) with some alcohol under her belt and having a one night stand over her being attracted to him long-term. Women are picky about personality for the long term, and a lot of these guys on here aren't good looking to begin with and have no confidence on top of it or the type of personality that would attract a hot girl.

Hope, some of us aren't looking to "date." All it took for me was to date one girl that wasn't my ideal or a compatibility match to know that dating wasn't for me. I get attached anyway, even if she isn't my ideal or a compatibility match because to me there's nothing casual about getting to know someone and also taking your clothes off with that person.

I'll admit, I'm not most guys...in every area of life, I'm a man of routine. I don't need variety. A lot of men, the reason they look at porn or cheat isn't because they don't find their girlfriend or wife attractive, it's because they want it all and want to have the home life while also having "excitement" on the side...excitement in the form of women that look different than their girlfriend or wife. I'm a guy that likes one type of woman, always have, and always will, and rarely see a woman, romantically or sexually where I think "wow." In other words, I would be completely faithful to my girlfriend or wife forever, unless you count checking out actresses in tv shows and saying "She looks good."

I don't bother doing the casual thing. For me, I have to think that I could look at the woman a year from now and be as attracted to her (assuming the compatibility is there) that I was the day I met her.

When I was 18, I was working at Walmart for the Christmas season. There was a girl that worked at customer service that was looking at me all the time. I'm really not sure, and usually I'm pretty good at detecting these things, if she was checking me out or making fun of me. I, of course, was too shy to find out, and didn't talk to her until my last day on the job, where I said "Hi," handed her my phone number awkwardly without making eye contact and walked away. She's the most beautiful girl I've ever seen.

A few months ago, I found her on facebook and she looks even better...just as pretty and more mature, and even more deflating, she appears to have a boyfriend or husband that kind of looks like me.

Sometimes you just know, and when I get that opportunity again, I'm not going to blow it.

Hey look, I know that you can't just start a long-term relationship with a woman you just met. That part makes perfect sense to me. That's why it takes me months or years of knowing someone as a friend before I'm willing to ask her out... I need to get to know her, after all. What doesn't make any sense to me is starting a "casual relationship" (which, to be honest, sounds like an oxymoron to me) and trying to figure all that out on the fly.

So it seems so far the general answer is:

1) Women seem to be equally picky when they are looking for long and short term relationships
2) Unless you are really hot or really ugly, different women will judge your hotness differently

I would agree with that.

Personally, I never go out with anyone if I couldn't potentially imagine them as a long-term partner, so no matter the length of the relationship (1 week, 10 months..) I still look for certain characteristics, mainly trustworthiness, sense of humour and affectionate.

These do change as I get older; I have more self-esteem now and, after having a couple of very bad experiences in the past, I now spot the warning signs a lot earlier on of someone who will be harmful to me. This means that whilst in the past, my 'dumping point' would have been harmful actions themselves, I would now end a relationship (or refuse to start one) if sufficient warning signs are present.

My choice of guy is quite ranged in terms of conventional attractiveness (I haven't had enough experience to have a certain 'type') but I think if my other criteria are met, then looks aren't important (after all, they don't last).

I am definitely more picky when I am looking for someone to commit to long-term. When you intend to be with someone long-term/for life, I think you have to at least like them/enjoy their company. The way they look physically? I couldn't really give a toss, that is not important, because if they are beautiful on the inside, they are on the outside in my eyes. However, I do not like men that are dependent on their parents. That doesn't mean I don't like men who live at home with their parents as there may be a valid reason for doing so, I mean those that still get their parents to wash and iron their clothes for them, wash the dishes etc as that means they will constantly expect the same of me. That lack of independence is a complete turn-off for me. If I want to wash and iron someone's clothes, I will have a child, simple as that. A grown-man should not behave in this manner and, in my opinion, should know better. Laziness is another character trait that I find intolerable. But then I suppose that ties in with the above. Plus men like this (from experience) are more often than not going to get their parents to side with them in an argument, meaning I will be involved in a relationship where there is me, him and his parents. NO THANK YOU!! !! I like a relationship where there is only two people in it, not others. By this token, that also excludes men who talk about their ex's regularly as I know I'm worth more than putting up with that garbage. All I ask for is someone who can treat me well, who I can get on with easily, who understands that I am clueless when it comes to relationships and can communicate with me as to how I can make them happy and, in return, I will do my very best to look after and love him as well as he looks after me and loves me. I am in a relationship at the moment, but I am unsure if I make him happy or not. He hasn't left me, so I will take that as a positive sign.

As to casual/short-term relationships, I do like them to be attractive (not necessarily drop-dead gorgeous, just enough to be attractive) witha high enough sex drive to satisfy me, as this is all I am generally after with a short-term relationship, hence his attractiveness tends to be more important as I am not actually going to care for him as a person. Also, and this is very important, I explain to him that I don't want anything long-term so if he is easily hurt and will feel used by my behaviour, I will not enter into a casual arrangement such as this with him, as hurting others is not, and never has been, my intention. My only rule in these kind of arrangement is that a man is not allowed to have romantic feelings for me. This then benefits both of us until someone we really want comes along.

Range, the point of my comment (and I believe starygrrl's) is that you can't short-cut the process. If you want to fall in love (and you've said that's your goal), you have to date women first (probably many women before you find the right one).

Perhaps your definition of dating is different than mine. It seems to me that your impression of dating is finding someone to have casual sex with. That's not what I'm talking about - I'm talking about finding someone with whom you share a mutual attraction, and spending time with that person - getting to know them, revealing your characters to each other. Where sex comes into the equation is based on the people involved. If you're not comfortable being sexual with someone until you feel there's a basic level of compatibility between you and the young lady - good for you. There are plenty of women out there who will be comfortable with a slower pace.

I think one of the reasons you feel so negatively about your past experience is that you assumed that because this girl was willing to be sexual with you, she felt some level of emotional attachment for you. While it's a hard lesson, now you know that a willingness to be sexual with you doesn't imply anything about a woman's feelings for you. All kinds of women get naked with all kinds of men for all kinds of reasons. You can avoid those kinds of misunderstandings in the future by communicating your intentions, your expectations, and needs very clearly before you get sexual. (If you didn't have that communication prior to getting sexual with the girl you dated, then you share responsibility for your disappointment equally with her.)

I think your experience really doesn't support your comment that "sometimes you just know" (my interpretation of that comment is that "sometimes you just know" when someone is right for you). Clearly, the girl you met at work wasn't right for you, because she didn't call you (although I think you did the right thing in making the attempt with her). I'm not trying to discourage you reaching out to a woman who seems attracted; I'm trying to encourage you not to place so much significance on each woman you approach. The customer service girl wasn't a missed opportunity - you took a chance and gave her your number - good for you. Now let her (and all the regret you feel) go, because she wasn't "the one" - she was just part of the larger process of finding the right person for you.

If you're looking for a potential mate, the process of getting to know a woman is dating. All you need to know at the jump is that the two of you share a mutual attraction....the rest you learn as you date. Every relationship, whether a friendship or a romantic relationship, is casual at the beginning. You decide whether you want to have a more serious relationship as you get to know a person, and determine if that person meets your expectations and needs.

My whole point is that each relationship you have is not supposed to be permanent, or epic, or love, or lead to marriage. In fact, every relationship we have prior to marriage is a relationship that did not lead to marriage. That's typical. Some relationships last a date or two, some relationships six months, some a few years, etc.

I don't understand your use of the term "on the fly" in this situation, because it implies something that's done in haste. Determining whether a person is the right person for you or not has nothing to do with haste - it's simply part of the larger process of living your life - it takes as long as it takes.

many women want impossible results

i do not care what anyone else wants. if they want what i want, then they will like me.
if i am not interested in what they want, then they will feel neglected and ignored by me.

i just need to relax and not have another brain with it's "wants" muddling my mind.

i like girls who are like me, and that is almost no one, and i am not that interested anyway because i am not a hairy horny musky alpha male.

And I do go through that thought process. At one point or another, I have considered almost all of my female friends. Most of them, I come to the conclusion that it would never work out, so I don't waste their time by asking them out. But if there's a woman that there may be a possible attraction for, I start trying to spend more time around that woman, getting to know her better. And only then, after I've finished learning what she is like (and again, if there is an incompatibility, it dies there), would I ask her out.


Do I expect every relationship to lead to marriage? No. But if I can't envision the relationship going anywhere when it starts, then I am doing myself and my hypothetical woman a disservice, wasting time for the both of us, if I decide to commit to the relationship anyway...


I'm not necessarily using the term to mean in haste, but rather to mean trying to figure things out as you're going along, rather than have it all (or at least as much as possible) figured out beforehand (which would be preferable for me)...

Well, I'm taking this as a healthy change of perspective on your part, because when I started reading your posts (a month or two ago), you were certain that the girl from your church was your only chance at marriage (and that chance was gone when she broke up with you). So if you're now open to relationships with women outside your church, good for you.



Yeah....it doesn't work that way - nobody has it all figured out before their first date. That's because relationships involve two people, and you're only in control of one of them. You seem to think that you can predict the success or failure of a relationship before it ever materializes, and you can't. (I can't either, because it's just not possible.) Clearly, your experience with your gf proved that: she didn't respond the way you thought she would...and you knew her for three years before you started dating. What does that teach you about how well you can predict the outcome of a relationship?

Believing that you can minimize the risks associated with being in a relationship by planning out every step of it beforehand is only setting yourself up to fail, and wasting a lot of valuable time. We all strike out before we find the right one, and we all get our hearts broken in the process. There's no way to avoid that. You just have to decide whether you prefer isolation to the possibility of heartbreak.

Hope, the reason the customer service girl didn't call is because 1.)IEven if she was interested, I had already blown it by being too shy/socially awkward. An NT girl, even if she thinks a guy is cute, will completely lose interest if the guy is painfully shy and socially inept 2.)18 year old girls don't make the first move. They are called, they don't make the first call. My approach, while too little too late, was also the wrong approach.

As for my ex...she knew I wanted a girlfriend, and she knew I wanted to lose my virginity as well. If anything, she complicated things by giving me oral sex on the second date, getting in bed with no intention of sex on the third or fourth, and then dumping me because I wanted to make her my girlfriend when I started to have feelings for her.