Board index › Coping in life › Love and Dating

Fear of being prejudged (Asperger's) and Cassandra

Page 2 of 2 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Previous topic | Next topic

Jono
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,649
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

21 Jan 2010, 8:01 pm

sgrannel wrote:
I wouldn't include any mention of AS in any dating profiles. Leave it up to her to evaluate one's abilities to hold a conversation etc. You can't count on people to correctly understand what this means, especially given the bad publicity AS gets. The whole Cassandra thing seems blown out of proportion too, at least as how I see its possible application to me.

I imagine a person in the role of "Cassandra" might say: "Why won't he meet my needs? I expected every day to be more exciting and romantic than the last, and that he should just instinctively clean up all the drama and trouble I went out of my way to create to test him at every turn. Why won't anyone believe me when I blame his AS for my disappointment? If I can't be a poor helpless victim, I can't go after that other guy I've had my eye on without looking bad!"


The thing is, I can see how some things inherently associated with AS, like problems with non-verbal communication, could potentially cause relationship problems. Especially with an NT who doesn't know all the effects of those things. What I don't understand, is why some of those people don't try to come to an understanding of AS rather than making assumptions about goes on in the AS partner's head. In the following link, take a look at what this girl asked, which is reasonable, but then look at the responses:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=aspartners&msg=9652.1



Stinkypuppy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Oct 2006
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,554

21 Jan 2010, 8:52 pm

Jono wrote:
So does balance mean a list of a mixture of good and bad points? If not, what is being balanced? The thing is, I don't think I would necessarily be good at writing a paragraph about myself. I also don't always know how other people view me.

Balance does mean a mixture of good and bad points. If you don't know how other people view you, then what you can do instead is think about what you like and don't like about yourself. What is considered "good" or "bad" is going to be a reflection really of your own value system. For example, what are some things that you do well? What do you do poorly? What do you like about yourself? What do you hate about yourself?


_________________
Won't you help a poor little puppy?


Jono
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,649
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

23 Jan 2010, 8:14 pm

Stinkypuppy wrote:
Jono wrote:
So does balance mean a list of a mixture of good and bad points? If not, what is being balanced? The thing is, I don't think I would necessarily be good at writing a paragraph about myself. I also don't always know how other people view me.

Balance does mean a mixture of good and bad points. If you don't know how other people view you, then what you can do instead is think about what you like and don't like about yourself. What is considered "good" or "bad" is going to be a reflection really of your own value system. For example, what are some things that you do well? What do you do poorly? What do you like about yourself? What do you hate about yourself?


Thanks



sgrannel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,919

24 Jan 2010, 3:19 am

Jono wrote:
sgrannel wrote:
I wouldn't include any mention of AS in any dating profiles. Leave it up to her to evaluate one's abilities to hold a conversation etc. You can't count on people to correctly understand what this means, especially given the bad publicity AS gets. The whole Cassandra thing seems blown out of proportion too, at least as how I see its possible application to me.

I imagine a person in the role of "Cassandra" might say: "Why won't he meet my needs? I expected every day to be more exciting and romantic than the last, and that he should just instinctively clean up all the drama and trouble I went out of my way to create to test him at every turn. Why won't anyone believe me when I blame his AS for my disappointment? If I can't be a poor helpless victim, I can't go after that other guy I've had my eye on without looking bad!"


The thing is, I can see how some things inherently associated with AS, like problems with non-verbal communication, could potentially cause relationship problems. Especially with an NT who doesn't know all the effects of those things. What I don't understand, is why some of those people don't try to come to an understanding of AS rather than making assumptions about goes on in the AS partner's head. In the following link, take a look at what this girl asked, which is reasonable, but then look at the responses:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=aspartners&msg=9652.1


Wow, that's pretty nasty. We'll concede that some of the things they say might apply to some specific individuals. Someone I know does things that make me cringe and I can see how the things he says and does might cause difficulty to wives and people who have worked with him in the past. Nevertheless it's not right to say that AS is an automatic relationship death sentence. I think some women have some expectations that are unreasonable and difficult if not impossible even for an NT to meet. Or maybe it's just me.


_________________
A boy and his dog can go walking
A boy and his dog sometimes talk to each other
A boy and a dog can be happy sitting down in the woods on a log
But a dog knows his boy can go wrong


BetsyRath
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 194

24 Jan 2010, 11:28 am

You know what I think? There's a concept of a "Broken Picker". I've known a few gals who had this problem, consistently picking axxholes, alcoholics, unavailable men etc. Usually it's because they need 12 or 14 years of therapy themselves, and they need someone else to focus on to make their own dysfunction seem OK. They proceed to obsess about the drug addict or abusive guy, begging and pleading his behavior to change while he ignores them and carries forth. Further, they won't leave these relationships when they see the bad - - but instead, hold onto them begging and pleading. I have one close girlfriend, she is so beautiful and kind, good job and smart. You would think she's a "catch" for any guy but she is like a magnet for screwed up men - and she has no low-bar, she'll date anyone. They treat her like utter crap. Until she fixes her own issues, she is incapable of a healthy relationship.

Let me word this carefully.

I think it is possible for a woman who has a Broken Picker problem to find herself attracted to a guy with AS. It is not because he is a bad choice. He may be a good choice for a functional woman. It is because from a cursory inspection, he may unintentionally give off vibes of being the wrong choice and this very thing makes him attractive to an extremely dysfunctional woman. It is perverse. You can read it in that thread above! There it is! Those woman identify completely as a victim, it's lifeblood to them, they are clearly huge problems and do not recognize it.

I think the important point here: The relationship issues become all about the AS partner. He is the one broken, he is the one who isn't functioning, it's AS causing the toxicity in the marriage or relationship. But you know what? SHE was messed up when she got here. She is 50% of the problem. He may have his issues to work through, but they will never work through the issues because she is really screwed up. And since she's created a situation where he's the only problem, she won't have to face anything.

Just a theory.


_________________
Happy and loving my AS/NT marriage.


Jono
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,649
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

24 Jan 2010, 5:12 pm

sgrannel wrote:
Wow, that's pretty nasty. We'll concede that some of the things they say might apply to some specific individuals. Someone I know does things that make me cringe and I can see how the things he says and does might cause difficulty to wives and people who have worked with him in the past. Nevertheless it's not right to say that AS is an automatic relationship death sentence. I think some women have some expectations that are unreasonable and difficult if not impossible even for an NT to meet. Or maybe it's just me.


Sure, maybe that's possible but not having had a relationship I can't really comment on what the normal expectations should be. I know other people on here have also said the same thing that AS shouldn't be considered an automatic cause of relationship failure. Do think it would turn out better if they start with a certain level expectation to begin with? If they don't, then why wouldn't they try to understand the AS perspective?



Last edited by Jono on 24 Jan 2010, 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jono
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,649
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

24 Jan 2010, 5:17 pm

BetsyRath wrote:
You know what I think? There's a concept of a "Broken Picker". I've known a few gals who had this problem, consistently picking axxholes, alcoholics, unavailable men etc. Usually it's because they need 12 or 14 years of therapy themselves, and they need someone else to focus on to make their own dysfunction seem OK. They proceed to obsess about the drug addict or abusive guy, begging and pleading his behavior to change while he ignores them and carries forth. Further, they won't leave these relationships when they see the bad - - but instead, hold onto them begging and pleading. I have one close girlfriend, she is so beautiful and kind, good job and smart. You would think she's a "catch" for any guy but she is like a magnet for screwed up men - and she has no low-bar, she'll date anyone. They treat her like utter crap. Until she fixes her own issues, she is incapable of a healthy relationship.

Let me word this carefully.

I think it is possible for a woman who has a Broken Picker problem to find herself attracted to a guy with AS. It is not because he is a bad choice. He may be a good choice for a functional woman. It is because from a cursory inspection, he may unintentionally give off vibes of being the wrong choice and this very thing makes him attractive to an extremely dysfunctional woman. It is perverse. You can read it in that thread above! There it is! Those woman identify completely as a victim, it's lifeblood to them, they are clearly huge problems and do not recognize it.

I think the important point here: The relationship issues become all about the AS partner. He is the one broken, he is the one who isn't functioning, it's AS causing the toxicity in the marriage or relationship. But you know what? SHE was messed up when she got here. She is 50% of the problem. He may have his issues to work through, but they will never work through the issues because she is really screwed up. And since she's created a situation where he's the only problem, she won't have to face anything.

Just a theory.


Then the next issue I'm worried about is that other people might read the stuff as written in forums like that and believe it. Do you think that might be a real problem?



Hector
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,493

24 Jan 2010, 5:31 pm

I don't think my AS at least is nearly a big enough issue to have to mention. My suspicion is that if people who didn't know me knew I had AS they would expect me to be much more difficult a person than I really am. So these days I only mention my history to people in AS groups, the relevant professionals, family members and friends close enough to me so as not to get weird ideas.

I feel like I shouldn't speak for everyone, but I imagine that for most people posting in this forum who are looking for a partner on the internet, you will suffer more from being unfairly judged from the off due to your diagnosis than from the benefits of being reassured that your prospective date doesn't mind.



BetsyRath
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 194

24 Jan 2010, 6:37 pm

Jono wrote:
BetsyRath wrote:
You know what I think? There's a concept of a "Broken Picker". I've known a few gals who had this problem, consistently picking axxholes, alcoholics, unavailable men etc. Usually it's because they need 12 or 14 years of therapy themselves, and they need someone else to focus on to make their own dysfunction seem OK. They proceed to obsess about the drug addict or abusive guy, begging and pleading his behavior to change while he ignores them and carries forth. Further, they won't leave these relationships when they see the bad - - but instead, hold onto them begging and pleading. I have one close girlfriend, she is so beautiful and kind, good job and smart. You would think she's a "catch" for any guy but she is like a magnet for screwed up men - and she has no low-bar, she'll date anyone. They treat her like utter crap. Until she fixes her own issues, she is incapable of a healthy relationship.

Let me word this carefully.

I think it is possible for a woman who has a Broken Picker problem to find herself attracted to a guy with AS. It is not because he is a bad choice. He may be a good choice for a functional woman. It is because from a cursory inspection, he may unintentionally give off vibes of being the wrong choice and this very thing makes him attractive to an extremely dysfunctional woman. It is perverse. You can read it in that thread above! There it is! Those woman identify completely as a victim, it's lifeblood to them, they are clearly huge problems and do not recognize it.

I think the important point here: The relationship issues become all about the AS partner. He is the one broken, he is the one who isn't functioning, it's AS causing the toxicity in the marriage or relationship. But you know what? SHE was messed up when she got here. She is 50% of the problem. He may have his issues to work through, but they will never work through the issues because she is really screwed up. And since she's created a situation where he's the only problem, she won't have to face anything.

Just a theory.


Then the next issue I'm worried about is that other people might read the stuff as written in forums like that and believe it. Do you think that might be a real problem?


Yes. I do! But I will say - I discovered those forums & perused through quickly when learning about my husband, before I discovered WP. They all sounded bitter and maladjusted. I dismissed it as a bunch of whinging and complaining.

If these women had their crap together emotionally, they could probably sort out the AS behavior has zip to do with them, and also be able to focus on their own lives and create some happiness. Once that happens, the AS behaviors become a very small bubble instead of a huge definitive bubble in the relationship. Things would be in proper perspective - just a relationship, not their entire freaking lives. Those posts are kind of gobsmackingly self centered. As if they stayed with a guy for 22 years 25 years, 30 years and it's HIS fault? Somethings wrong with HIM? Because her needs aren't met? Oy.


_________________
Happy and loving my AS/NT marriage.


makuranososhi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,805
Location: Banned by Alex

24 Jan 2010, 9:30 pm

It's remarkable how much better a relationship works when each member focuses on being the best partner to the other, not making demands on their partner to suit their own needs.


M.


_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.

For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!


Jono
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,649
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

26 Jan 2010, 3:19 pm

Well, thanks for the replies.