When the friendship is just not enough

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03 Feb 2010, 8:52 pm

I agree with many of the statements above.

Don't pretend to be someones friend to begin with if you don't want it.
Ditching someone as a friend because they don't want a relationship implies you don't like their company and only want sex.

BUT

I can understand the all or nothing requirement. Sometimes its not for the above reasons, sometimes its just too painful for one person to remain friends with someone they love very much and want more with. I've been there, and people have been there with me.

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03 Feb 2010, 9:08 pm

hale_bopp wrote:

I can understand the all or nothing requirement. Sometimes its not for the above reasons, sometimes its just too painful for one person to remain friends with someone they love very much and want more with. I've been there, and people have been there with me.

That's exactly what I was thinking, but I don't know because I haven't really "been there". In cases where I genuinely enjoy someone's company, I have a sure-fire ability to immediately disengage from all feelings that go beyond that and convince myself that anything beyond a friendship wouldn't have worked well anyway.

I've always been that way but it took me until relatively recently to realize what a blessing that is.

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03 Feb 2010, 10:26 pm

hale_bopp wrote:

BUT

I can understand the all or nothing requirement. Sometimes its not for the above reasons, sometimes its just too painful for one person to remain friends with someone they love very much and want more with. I've been there, and people have been there with me.

I agree, I think it's often way more complicated that simply wanting sex and not getting it - it's about a disparity in intensity of feelings that can make a platonic relationship unrealistic.

Sometimes you need to cut the "rejectee" some slack, that situation totally sucks.

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03 Feb 2010, 11:11 pm

So I see that people have an issue with men who become friends with women just to get into their pants. Personally, I agree with the majority of posters here that such a thing is just a jerk move.

However, on the other hand, I really don't get why people see date material in other people the moment they meet. To me, it's not a date unless we were already good friends and want to progress further (although, unlike said jerks, I don't shut a woman out of my life just because she rejected me, and I'm actually still friends to this day with most of the women I've asked out). But, please, for my sake, STOP referring to meetings with people that you're only "interested" in (as opposed to in a relationship with) as dates. Because they're not.

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03 Feb 2010, 11:56 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:

Toad, it's semantics that you're arguing, and you're in the minority anyway. A male and female going out with intentions of being more than friends is a "date." Why that frustrates you so much, I have no idea. The world doesn't work around your needs.

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04 Feb 2010, 12:12 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:

Funny - with my ex-fiancee, the second time I ever met her was our first date. She had seen me at work, came back and gave me her number. Several days into weeks later, I called and we spoke on the phone twice. That date led somewhere... ultimately we were engaged for almost three years before things dissolved between us. It is unrealistic to expect the rest of the world to change to suit your needs or definitions, Toad.

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04 Feb 2010, 2:06 am

A lot of women here just don't seem get it.

Once that line has been crossed, a guy cannot go back. If a guy is feeling romantic feelings for a girl and they reject that, it is VERY hard for the guy afterwards to remain friends. It'll be a awkward relationship at best that benefits no one. Why should they sacrifice their own well-being for your friendship? It isn't fair to the guy.

It's not always about "Oh they just wanted to get in your pants"; sometimes the guy has enjoyed the initial friendship and genuinely likes the girl enough to ask them out. If it doesn't work out, then there is no harm in moving on. Some people might be able to make it work afterwards, some can't.

While there are some "players" who probably do this kind of crap, it's wrong to assume this of every guy who decides to it's better to move on.
As a guy who has gone through this kind of thing several times before, I can assure you it not FUN from the guys point of view. Especially after the girl rejects you and finds some other boy toy but still wants to remain "friends". It's just easier to move on.

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04 Feb 2010, 11:44 am

Zara wrote:

A lot of women here just don't seem get it.

Once that line has been crossed, a guy cannot go back.

I get this piece.

ToadofSteel wrote:

I really don't get why people see date material in other people the moment they meet.

Because of physical chemistry. Like, when you stand next to someone and just the smell of his skin makes your knees weak. That's why you know they are 'date' material instead of 'friend' material. Now, the 'friend' piece may progress to the 'date' but even then, I have to have a little of the weak knee feeling.

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04 Feb 2010, 12:39 pm

BetsyRath wrote:

Zara wrote:

A lot of women here just don't seem get it.

Once that line has been crossed, a guy cannot go back.

I get this piece.

ToadofSteel wrote:

I really don't get why people see date material in other people the moment they meet.

I have to agree, it is pretty easy to determine early on, alot of it is physical chemistry too. Smell plays a big part.

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04 Feb 2010, 1:05 pm

^^ I agree re: scent, as that has generally been the biggest trigger to my realization of interest in a woman over the years - her scent. Not perfumed, per se, or any overwhelming odor, but her scent as an individual.

M.

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04 Feb 2010, 1:23 pm

Zara wrote:

Depends on the male. I have no trouble at all with maintaining a simple friendship or even a strong friendship with someone I'd find romantic interest in that wasn't reciprocated.

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04 Feb 2010, 2:03 pm

Zara: I coudn't have said it better myself! :wink:

When I was in my teens I had many (platonic)female friends, and most of the time there was a mutual lack of romantic interest. But there was one girl in particular who I befriended at the beginning of 9th grade in the fall and by the spring I started to develop feelings for her but she didn't have such feelings for me and it started to make her uncomfortable so she stopped being friends with me. Sexual tension makes platonic friendships awkward, so at this point I dont bother to stay friends if both of us don't feel the same way towards each other. ALSO, when I have accepted platonic friendship with a woman who turned me down romantically......Well, the moment she gets a bf she breaks off the friendship. I don't like to invest time in friendships that clearly are temporary and situational. And BTW, I learned early on that befriending someone you're attracted to is NOT going to make her feel the same way if she doesn't already and if you're an aspie with ulterior motives its pointless to try to hide them.

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04 Feb 2010, 3:08 pm

makuranososhi wrote:

Maggiedoll wrote:

makuranososhi wrote:

That actually makes a lot of sense, that by the very process that establishes comfort for many on the spectrum (especially males, from the discussions in this subforum) it sets up the expectation of friendship in the other person. I think that speaks again to how the dating process is perceived by many as the process of getting to know someone, in a romantic fashion, as opposed to a "next step" once that friendship is established, and that there is a perceived difference between the two processes. Agreed that the 'friend zone' is a myth, but that it seems likely that once someone has gone through getting to know another person in one way that they are not always willing to change their views. Reminds me of studies done regarding perceptions within families, and that other members of a familial or community unit tend to be the most resistant of change in other members - a black sheep is generally always seen as a black sheep, etc.

I'm not sure it's so much the existence of a "zone" so much as the feeling that if somebody likes you as a person, they'll want to be friends. So if a guy expressed interest in a romantic relationship but then declines friendship, it seems as though all he was really interested in was sex. If he doesn't want a friendship, it can be hard to believe that he would have actually wanted a relationship.

Sorry, am confused as that seems to be repeating what I said - that the friend zone is a myth, and that there are differences in how those who see dating as the next step in a friendship vs. those who see dating as the process of establishing that friendship. I'm in complete agreement with the idea that if someone only wanted to be in a romantic relationship with me, yet would not accept friendship if that was the option offered, isn't really a sincere friend to begin with. So... again, my apologies but I'm not sure how our two comments differ at all.

I think my point was that it's less about not being willing to change views and more about feeling lied to. Sometimes it happens that people go from being friends to being in a relationship, but usually it's in cases where they pursued the friendship itself first, and then DID start to see the person differently, rather than pursuing the friendship for the sake of an eventual relationship.

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05 Feb 2010, 12:11 am

Zara wrote:

Once that line has been crossed, a guy cannot go back. If a guy is feeling romantic feelings for a girl and they reject that, it is VERY hard for the guy afterwards to remain friends. It'll be a awkward relationship at best that benefits no one. Why should they sacrifice their own well-being for your friendship? It isn't fair to the guy.

Not in my experience. I'm good friends with almost all the women I've asked out over the years (although to be fair a couple have drifted away over time). Yeah, there was a period of awkwardness, but that went away over time. Some previous prospects have even given me advice concerning later ones. I'm not saying my experience is one all men would have (I think my AS helps because i can compartmentalize my thoughts if needed), but I am saying that it is possible. If you truly love a woman, you'll want her to be happy, regardless of whether that is with you or not.

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05 Feb 2010, 4:50 am

ToadOfSteel wrote:

(I think my AS helps because i can compartmentalize my thoughts if needed)

Something that helps me is a vastly inflated pride. I must be better. Surely? Or must I? No, no, I definitely must.

Surely I contain some modicum of strength and gentlemanlyness.
I also feel that it would cheapen my love to run away in the face of awkwardness. My feelings would be victim to shoddy craftsmanship.

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05 Feb 2010, 5:02 am

I do try to understand if a guy can't be friends with me anymore, but it can be difficult. Personally I'm not attracted to many people, and I know from experience that I need that attraction to go out with someone otherwise I'll just hurt them even more. I'm also a bit of a geek. This means that I have a lot of guys in my life that I absolutely adore as friends. What a lot of guys don't seem to realise is how much it hurts to have to turn down someone you care about that much. Suddenly you've caused so much pain to one of your best friends, you've probably lost that friendship forever, and you know you couldn't have honestly responded in any other way. It's horrible. Sometimes them asking at all does feel a bit like a betrayal in a (probably weird) way.

I've been on the other side too. The first guy who ever kissed me I absolutely adored, but he made it fairly clear that he wasn't really interested in more than friendship. I couldn't stand the thought of losing him so I pretended to be ok with it while he spent the next few months telling me about all the other girls he liked. It hurt like hell but I got through it, and a few years later he's still a very good friend and all those feelings are long gone. I count that as a win.

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