Trying to show a heartbroken girl that you're a sweetheart

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Sound
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16 Mar 2010, 2:59 pm

Hmm.... that's too bad. Annoyingly, my impression came true... Very sorry bro, you appear to have become a "Nice Guy."

You might want to think about this and doublecheck yourself: If you were okay with being merely platonic, then you wouldn't mind the friendship status that simply rolls up, you'd be okay as-is. You wouldn't want more. In reality, it seems, you don't want to be friends, you want to be her boyfriend. And you want to try to eek up into it bit by bit by growing closer slowly. I'm sorry, but it generally doesn't work that way. And when she realizes that's whats been on your mind the whole time - and not normal friendship - she will feel surprised, betrayed, freaked out, etc. She will either try to rigidly re-assert your position, or get mad/creeped out, and avoid you.

This is a very common pattern... But the problem wasn't that you tried to be a good person. The problem was that you were too nervous, you sucked at flirting with her early on, or didn't broadcast your mindset & desires more clearly. That also includes after you got 'Let's-Just-Be-Friended,' and replied with something like, "yeah, okay, that's cool, I mean like, I wanna be friends... good friends... uh sure. okay. I'm super glad and stuff. ha.. ha hah..."
.....which is an utter lie.

The way it typically works is that this girl is gonna stick in your mouth like peanut butter on the brain(Or something like that) and will not budge unless you forcibly remove her, or some other, cooler lady grabs your obsession. Due to this, it's unlikely that you two will have a very healthy friendship... At least, from your standpoint. Oh, she'll be quite fine with it - You'll give her just about everything she could want in a guy. But you'll start hearing tales about her ex's, or her new boyfriend, she'll complain about them, vent to you, she'll talk your ear off and share the sort of stuff that women don't tend to share with men they're attracted to. Occasionally you'll see a 'glimmer of hope' as she compares you to her lousy boyfriend, or maybe even snuggle up to you one night.... But in reality it's dizzyingly, confusingly platonic, nothing will ever become of it. And like a donkey with an unattainable carrot dangled in front of him, you'll keep going and going. You'll cancel your plans for her, put aside what you'd otherwise wanted for her sake, like a boyfriend would, to try and prove how great you are. Maybe you'll buy her a gift every now and then, in vain attempts of attracting her.

It won't work.

You being a "Nice Guy" will make you a seemingly good person, but it will not make her attracted to you. Her attraction is earned otherwise. Being a good person is just a small part of the larger picture of what grabs women's attention.

I'm guessing that you'll not be very successful at cooling your jets about this girl, in your mind. It wouldn't make sense, as you're inexperienced and into her in a big way. Therefore, for the sake of your sanity and emotional stability, I suggest gently and quietly phasing this girl out of your life, without confronting her in any way. Or go focus on some other girl, so as to prevent you from obsessing too much over this one. But otherwise, this ship has sailed, and it's extremely unlikely it's a-comin' back, not without a truly drastic change in her perspective of you. Someday, when you're better able to handle a crush, when it becomes less of a big deal, you might be able to avoid this ending. But until then, you're likely to follow the pattern of the "Nice Guy," unless you take difficult actions to resist that fate.
I am truly sorry.

This is the voice of experience, boyo. You may not agree with it yet, but at least consider it. I've unfortunately run this pattern multiple times, once it was with a girl who had some paranoid tendencies, and that occasion ended up even more awkward and ugly than the other times....
But anyhoo. If all this sounds overly drastic, and pragmatic, it's because there is an extremely strong, reliable pattern to this, repeated ad-nauseum among guys like us. There are myriad ways we can rationalize why we don't fit the bill, why there's hope, why it might be different. And guys like us, we take those exceptions, those excuses, and use it to keep on the path, to avoid doing the difficult things that need to be done.
I don't relish being pragmatic here, but this is a topic where it pays in spades to be pragmatic.

In the future, flirt early and constantly, mildly and comfortably, with a focus on being funny while you do it. If nothing else, this will prevent the process from drawing out - You'll know right off the bat if she's receptive, or flat out uninterested. It makes things much simpler for both of you, and does not preclude platonic friendship, assuming you can move on and can handle the rejection.



Northeastern292
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16 Mar 2010, 5:14 pm

Sound wrote:
Hmm.... that's too bad. Annoyingly, my impression came true... Very sorry bro, you appear to have become a "Nice Guy."

You might want to think about this and doublecheck yourself: If you were okay with being merely platonic, then you wouldn't mind the friendship status that simply rolls up, you'd be okay as-is. You wouldn't want more. In reality, it seems, you don't want to be friends, you want to be her boyfriend. And you want to try to eek up into it bit by bit by growing closer slowly. I'm sorry, but it generally doesn't work that way. And when she realizes that's whats been on your mind the whole time - and not normal friendship - she will feel surprised, betrayed, freaked out, etc. She will either try to rigidly re-assert your position, or get mad/creeped out, and avoid you.

This is a very common pattern... But the problem wasn't that you tried to be a good person. The problem was that you were too nervous, you sucked at flirting with her early on, or didn't broadcast your mindset & desires more clearly. That also includes after you got 'Let's-Just-Be-Friended,' and replied with something like, "yeah, okay, that's cool, I mean like, I wanna be friends... good friends... uh sure. okay. I'm super glad and stuff. ha.. ha hah..."
.....which is an utter lie.

The way it typically works is that this girl is gonna stick in your mouth like peanut butter on the brain(Or something like that) and will not budge unless you forcibly remove her, or some other, cooler lady grabs your obsession. Due to this, it's unlikely that you two will have a very healthy friendship... At least, from your standpoint. Oh, she'll be quite fine with it - You'll give her just about everything she could want in a guy. But you'll start hearing tales about her ex's, or her new boyfriend, she'll complain about them, vent to you, she'll talk your ear off and share the sort of stuff that women don't tend to share with men they're attracted to. Occasionally you'll see a 'glimmer of hope' as she compares you to her lousy boyfriend, or maybe even snuggle up to you one night.... But in reality it's dizzyingly, confusingly platonic, nothing will ever become of it. And like a donkey with an unattainable carrot dangled in front of him, you'll keep going and going. You'll cancel your plans for her, put aside what you'd otherwise wanted for her sake, like a boyfriend would, to try and prove how great you are. Maybe you'll buy her a gift every now and then, in vain attempts of attracting her.

It won't work.

You being a "Nice Guy" will make you a seemingly good person, but it will not make her attracted to you. Her attraction is earned otherwise. Being a good person is just a small part of the larger picture of what grabs women's attention.

I'm guessing that you'll not be very successful at cooling your jets about this girl, in your mind. It wouldn't make sense, as you're inexperienced and into her in a big way. Therefore, for the sake of your sanity and emotional stability, I suggest gently and quietly phasing this girl out of your life, without confronting her in any way. Or go focus on some other girl, so as to prevent you from obsessing too much over this one. But otherwise, this ship has sailed, and it's extremely unlikely it's a-comin' back, not without a truly drastic change in her perspective of you. Someday, when you're better able to handle a crush, when it becomes less of a big deal, you might be able to avoid this ending. But until then, you're likely to follow the pattern of the "Nice Guy," unless you take difficult actions to resist that fate.
I am truly sorry.

This is the voice of experience, boyo. You may not agree with it yet, but at least consider it. I've unfortunately run this pattern multiple times, once it was with a girl who had some paranoid tendencies, and that occasion ended up even more awkward and ugly than the other times....
But anyhoo. If all this sounds overly drastic, and pragmatic, it's because there is an extremely strong, reliable pattern to this, repeated ad-nauseum among guys like us. There are myriad ways we can rationalize why we don't fit the bill, why there's hope, why it might be different. And guys like us, we take those exceptions, those excuses, and use it to keep on the path, to avoid doing the difficult things that need to be done.
I don't relish being pragmatic here, but this is a topic where it pays in spades to be pragmatic.

In the future, flirt early and constantly, mildly and comfortably, with a focus on being funny while you do it. If nothing else, this will prevent the process from drawing out - You'll know right off the bat if she's receptive, or flat out uninterested. It makes things much simpler for both of you, and does not preclude platonic friendship, assuming you can move on and can handle the rejection.


I'm trying. It's tough however. This is becoming a vicious cycle. Quite a vicious cycle.



Northeastern292
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16 Mar 2010, 5:19 pm

Lene wrote:
Northeastern292 wrote:
I know this topic's a bit stale and dead, but the friendship isn't. She's come out and has told me that she only currently sees me as a friend, but over the past few weeks, it's become more comfortable to talk to her. I have no problem with the friendship thing at all, but it's just that I want to continue building that friendship, but I don't want it to just be one where we're talking on Facebook for a few hours straight, and not hanging out in person, because it's face to face interaction that builds a friendship.

Despite things, she has given me words of encouragement (she has for instance had utmost appreciation for chatting with me Saturday night and early Sunday morning after her ex-boyfriend basically rejected any reunion between him and her in a relationship setting, despite not having hard feelings). Surprisingly, we were able to get some things between us squared away. We both tend to have paranoia issues, and she was a smidgen paranoid that I was slightly stalking her and sending her uncomfortable signals. My only issue is, how do I improve the wheel? I'm going to leave her alone for a couple of days, let my hyperactive mind calm down a bit and see how things go.


I'm confused. When you say she has given you 'words of encouragement' and that you will 'see how things go', are you suggesting you still think you have a chance of dating her?

I'm sorry to say this, but she has very very clearly stated that you are just a friend. At the moment, you are just sending her uncomfortable signals; if you keep trying to pursue a relationship, or hanging around as a 'friend' in the hope of romance, then you will really freak her out.

Sorry if that's not what you meant, but I just think if you want to keep this friendship, you need to knock any romantic aspirations about it on the head.


I know, it's bugging me. But when girls try to hit on me, I can't honestly tell.



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16 Mar 2010, 5:21 pm

Northeastern292 wrote:
Lene wrote:
Northeastern292 wrote:
I know this topic's a bit stale and dead, but the friendship isn't. She's come out and has told me that she only currently sees me as a friend, but over the past few weeks, it's become more comfortable to talk to her. I have no problem with the friendship thing at all, but it's just that I want to continue building that friendship, but I don't want it to just be one where we're talking on Facebook for a few hours straight, and not hanging out in person, because it's face to face interaction that builds a friendship.

Despite things, she has given me words of encouragement (she has for instance had utmost appreciation for chatting with me Saturday night and early Sunday morning after her ex-boyfriend basically rejected any reunion between him and her in a relationship setting, despite not having hard feelings). Surprisingly, we were able to get some things between us squared away. We both tend to have paranoia issues, and she was a smidgen paranoid that I was slightly stalking her and sending her uncomfortable signals. My only issue is, how do I improve the wheel? I'm going to leave her alone for a couple of days, let my hyperactive mind calm down a bit and see how things go.


I'm confused. When you say she has given you 'words of encouragement' and that you will 'see how things go', are you suggesting you still think you have a chance of dating her?

I'm sorry to say this, but she has very very clearly stated that you are just a friend. At the moment, you are just sending her uncomfortable signals; if you keep trying to pursue a relationship, or hanging around as a 'friend' in the hope of romance, then you will really freak her out.

Sorry if that's not what you meant, but I just think if you want to keep this friendship, you need to knock any romantic aspirations about it on the head.


I know, it's bugging me. But when girls try to hit on me, I can't honestly tell.


So hit on them instead :wink: At least that way you get a clear answer quickly!



Sound
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16 Mar 2010, 10:32 pm

Lene wrote:
So hit on them instead :wink: At least that way you get a clear answer quickly!
Absolutely! It's generally a better idea to take matters into your own hands, dump assumptions, toss out the maybes, and base your decision on what you can prompt that is clear. If you're not sure if shes hitting on you, assume that she is not, but she's receptive to being flirted with. When you make a little progress, then you can re-asses how 'into you' she seems to be.

This helps you in two ways:
A) You'll probably skip over potential misunderstandings, and
B) You're more pro-active. By being proactive you
--B1) Get more practice and can therefore become more comfortable
--B2) Place yourself into a more confident frame, by necessity, which helps peoples perception of you immensely.

You're correct that the 'Nice Guy' pattern is a vicious cycle. Good eye - I can confirm that with my experience. Took me many tries to break out of it. ><
But being aware of it is the first step to turning things around. I'm gonna see if I can find a good resource on the topic...



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18 Mar 2010, 11:45 am

Sound wrote:
Lene wrote:
So hit on them instead :wink: At least that way you get a clear answer quickly!
Absolutely! It's generally a better idea to take matters into your own hands, dump assumptions, toss out the maybes, and base your decision on what you can prompt that is clear. If you're not sure if shes hitting on you, assume that she is not, but she's receptive to being flirted with. When you make a little progress, then you can re-asses how 'into you' she seems to be.

This helps you in two ways:
A) You'll probably skip over potential misunderstandings, and
B) You're more pro-active. By being proactive you
--B1) Get more practice and can therefore become more comfortable
--B2) Place yourself into a more confident frame, by necessity, which helps peoples perception of you immensely.

You're correct that the 'Nice Guy' pattern is a vicious cycle. Good eye - I can confirm that with my experience. Took me many tries to break out of it. ><
But being aware of it is the first step to turning things around. I'm gonna see if I can find a good resource on the topic...


Thanks! I emailed most of the post to my mom to read, and she said I was right on the money. If she had any spare time whatsoever, I'd set her up with an account on here. So the last few days I've stayed busy, had a hilarious chat with her on an assignment she was doing last night (because she was responding to my comments on Facebook yesterday), and I'm taking things as they come.

Our local Time Warner Cable affiliate had something on the issue, but they never uploaded it to their website.

Something here reminds me of AA meetings and the Twelve Step program (curse the fact that my biological dad was an alcoholic, and my younger full brother might be one), and how the first step is admitting the issue at hand.



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18 Mar 2010, 12:22 pm

I'd advise you to maintain your distance. Maybe open yourself to dating/pursuing other girls?

Has she definitely cut off her ex-boyfriend and categorically stated that she only wants to be friends? I'm somewhat confused where her ex comes in all of this :P


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Northeastern292
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18 Mar 2010, 1:32 pm

Postures wrote:
I'd advise you to maintain your distance. Maybe open yourself to dating/pursuing other girls?

Has she definitely cut off her ex-boyfriend and categorically stated that she only wants to be friends? I'm somewhat confused where her ex comes in all of this :P


It's so complicated that ever her friends by what she told me need a road map to navigate. For the most part, her ex has cut her off. But I have been maintaining my distance, so all is pretty good. Her relationship was sort of a ticking time bomb of sorts.

And I'm always open to dating other girls, always have been and always will be. But the thing for me is girls approaching me. It's not my cup of tea per say.



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18 Mar 2010, 1:47 pm

At least that's good that you're open to dating other people, I guess. Why don't you like girls approaching you?


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18 Mar 2010, 1:49 pm

Postures wrote:
At least that's good that you're open to dating other people, I guess. Why don't you like girls approaching you?


Actually, I meant it wrong.... :oops: I meant to say that girls don't like approaching me. I don't know why, and I've been trying to figure that out. But if I have good music, a good attitude, nothing can fail.



Last edited by Northeastern292 on 18 Mar 2010, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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18 Mar 2010, 1:56 pm

Ooh. I was a bit puzzled by that heh. It's possible that the girls who find you attractive are just too shy to approach you. That, or you look intimidating which, judging from your profile pic, I doubt :)


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18 Mar 2010, 2:00 pm

Postures wrote:
Ooh. I was a bit puzzled by that heh. It's possible that the girls who find you attractive are just too shy to approach you. That, or you look intimidating which, judging from your profile pic, I doubt :)


Thanks! I think another thing is I'm looking more more than just romance, but a companion. It's like what's the use of being in a relationship when there's no actual dialogue.

And yes, I need to stop using the word dialogue so much. :D But I have an uncomfortable time feeling comfortable in social situations, especially in noisy and large locals (examples being a college dining hall for instance). Quite surprising for someone who calls New York City a second home.



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18 Mar 2010, 2:11 pm

I agree. I've had crushes before that ended as soon as I realised that that person was completely dull to talk to and the conversations were extremely awkward. The "hi" "hi" "how are you?" "fine, you?" "same" *silence* type of conversations :P

Not all hot and interesting girls hang out at large, loud, busy places. Look in libraries, bookshops, second-hand bookshops, music stores, cafes... Plenty of other places to explore.


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18 Mar 2010, 2:14 pm

Postures wrote:
I agree. I've had crushes before that ended as soon as I realised that that person was completely dull to talk to and the conversations were extremely awkward. The "hi" "hi" "how are you?" "fine, you?" "same" *silence* type of conversations :P

Not all hot and interesting girls hang out at large, loud, busy places. Look in libraries, bookshops, second-hand bookshops, music stores, cafes... Plenty of other places to explore.


That's how it's been for just about every girl I've met and liked. I just don't really know how to flirt, and I'm not really a loud person per say.



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18 Mar 2010, 2:36 pm

Just be yourself ;)


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18 Mar 2010, 7:34 pm

Postures wrote:
Just be yourself ;)


That's what I've been doing since day one. But I think I get too uptight about things however.