Discussing important relationship issues with AS guy

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@sociable_hermit, your advice is practically a textbook definition of co-dependence: you are seeking to make this woman responsible for her partner's thoughts, feelings, and actions - and she is not. That's the bottom line - he's the only one who controls the pitch, volume and tone of his voice; he's the only one who decides whether he puts his finger in her chest in anger; he's the only one who can identify the internal signs of stress in himself - and make the decision to deal with his stress constructively, rather than destructively. Did you notice she didn't mention that he pulls that shiz at work? Hmmm, I wonder why? Perhaps because he knows he'd get his a$$ fired. Amazing how he can choose to control his behavior to avoid consequences at work, isn't it?

Reading your posts reminds me of a psych class I took in college. I read about an alcoholic's wife who defended his drinking - and his subsequent physical abuse of her - because he'd been abused as a child. Alcoholics typically have pretty good reasons for drinking, just as I'm sure ntchick's partner has pretty good reasons for acting out the way he does toward her. It's just that those reasons don't matter: it's incumbent on every person on this planet to not take their shiz out on the people in their lives. Instead, they need to acquire the coping skills required to deal with their issues in healthy and constructive ways. Could she be engaging in behavior that exacerbates the problem? YES! That's why I recommended they go to couples counseling together. But make no mistake - his choice to abuse is his choice. And yes, yelling, screaming, humiliating, abandonment, physical intimidation = abuse. There's nothing hypocritical about giving this man responsibility for his own actions, or condemning him for refusing to take it.

@hopegrows.

I am seeing this as him having meltdowns, as I said, you do seem to have no clue how they work. Once a meltdown is triggered, its triggered. Its called a meltdown for a REASON. If it was intentional, cold abuse, I would see it differently, but I see this as him melting down for various reasons (him being stressed from work puts him on edge), and her pushing subjects and pushing emotional triggers being the other issue. When a person with ASD has a meltdown, we can turn very abusive, but in no way are we in control. And if other party is in DIRECT RESPONSIBILITY for triggering a meltdown, especially when the person with the ASD tried to avoid it (either by walking away or changing the subject). If you push a button that you know its explosive and it explodes in your face, you pretty much are to blame. She keeps bringing up subjects for him which she knows are triggers, and he keeps melting down. She is not letting him cope and process things, and is pestering him instead. Yes, the meltdowns are hurtful in nature, but the very fact is she should not keep playing with proverbial fire and pushing his buttons. Recognizing meltdowns and what causes them ARE the responsibility of the person who is a partner with an ASD, if she is pushing subjects that she KNOWS is going to make him melt down, she only has herself to blame here.

I don't see this as an inherantly abusive situation. I see it as much more complex.

A meltdown is uncontrolable when it is in process. If you are pushing through somebodies coping mechanisms to avoid meltdowns, intentionally, you are to blame for whatever crap behavior once its in full blast. The truth is he is not in control when these are happening, plain and simple, and stating that the person in the meltdown should be "more in control" is unreasonable. The nature of a meltdown is emotional processing basically has gone haywire, there is no control. One can gain a degree of control over preventing a meltdown and reducing the intensity, but that takes work in a way that a person is not being constantly triggered. It requires alot of individual self evaluation and therapy, it requires reducing life stressers. Sometimes this means being straightforward about major life issues, such as no kids is nonnegotiable and not up for discussion, and not going to change. It requires alot of honesty and self recognition on the person with an ASD, many don't get to this point for a variety of reasons to even work on these issues. The thing is though, it requires a partner who is not making things worse. My one suggestion is to quit discussing the issues that bother him, and suggest he gets therapies for his meltdown issue. You need to create a destressed environment or leave. It may very well be the intimacy issue and the kids issue are not up for discussion right now until he gets greater peace in his life (instead of you causing additional stress).

@Starygrrl - I'm not arguing with you about what happens when an ASD person has a meltdown. I'm arguing with you about the dozens or hundreds of opportunities that ASD person had to avoid the meltdown - by learning how to handle ordinary stress in more constructive ways. I've read many, many posts on this site about how Aspies have learned to avoid, lessen, and otherwise control the frequency and severity of meltdowns, so I know that's possible.

My impression is that you're giving ntchick's partner a total pass for his abusive behavior, and assigning all the responsibility to her for "triggering" these meltdowns. I'm sorry, that's not the way relationships work. He's completely capable of controlling his behavior when real consequences exist (at work)....but when it comes to dealing with his partner, he's just some out-of-control Aspie on a tear? I don't accept that explanation any more than I accept that she's "playing with fire" by wanting to have adult conversations about their relationship. Jesus, Mary and Joseph - she said she's already taken on all the other responsibility in the relationship - now she's got to make every single major life choice too? That's not a partner - that's a mother - clearly, that's not the role she signed up for.

I see the complexity of the problem as well - however, I see the solution as much more simple and straightforward: each adult in the relationship takes responsibility for his/her own actions, and agrees to do the work required to raise the level of interaction to exclude yelling, screaming, physical intimidation, abandonment, and all other forms of abuse. Is it your position that Aspies are incapable of that?

Sorry that section tells me EVERYTHING. When she is following him, pestering him, basically pushing him, it IS pushing him into a meltdown and she even KNOWS this, she is the hair that is breaking the camels back. You do not EVER behave that way with a person with an ASD, if you know something causes a meltdown and a particular behavior causes a meltdown, you are best to avoid it, and if you keep doing it you only have yourself to blame. He is feeling trapped, and she is cornering him repeatidly looking for "resolution". Sorry, she keeps repeating the same behavior, knowing it will get a particular result, she is to blame. No ifs, ands or buts. The abusive behavior is on HER OWN PART. She keeps pushing him into a hostile situation and triggering his meltdowns, that is incredibly abusive. If this were an abusive situation where he is completely to blame, he would not be trying to prevent the meltdown in the first place, but he IS trying to prevent it in his own way and cope with this but she is pushing it ANYWAY. She may not like it, but that is the truth. But she has to realize it is ultimately her behavior that is causing the meltdown, if a person with an ASD is trying to avoid a meltdown and doing what he can to avoid it, and you just happen to keep bothering them knowing it will cause a meltdown, guess who is to blame, not the person with an ASD. Her approach is all wrong, you don't trigger a person with an ASD that way. You push a person with ASD that way, they will explode on you, and while she may want resolution, she needs to determine whether being melted down at (where she is directly to blame for creating the stressor) is worth getting resolution.

Yes a person with ASD can reduce the frequency and intensity of the meltdowns, but only in the right situation is in place and a patient and cooperative partner. One that can help recognize meltdowns, one that knows how to approach certian subject, one that has the patience to let the ASD person process certian issues in our own way. Guess what she is not providing the right situation and only making things worse, for him and for herself. As it stands the environment she is providing is inherantly hostile, and if somebody is dealing with a hostile work environment, one cannot handle a hostile home environment. And I am sorry, but we DO handle these situations completely different, he may have learned to cope with whatever the work situation is, but the fact is the way the home situation is it may be very well to much for him, especially the environment that she is creating. @hopegrows, you may think you understand ASDs, but honestly from this post, you really don't. WE DO have to be treated very differently, and yes, partners for us do have to be part parent in certian circumstances, and frequently have to walk on eggshells with regards to certian issues (basically approach it delicately, and never force it).


Yes a person with an ASD can reduce the frequency and intensity of meltdowns, but not if they are in an environment that she is providing. He is not the only abuser, she is too. Its not always the woman who is the only victim, especially if you are perpetuating and making worse a mental health issue, which is EXACTLY what she is doing.

Honestly speaking, I can tell there is a problem here when she has BPD. BTW here is the criteria for BPD:

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.
Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
Chronic feelings of emptiness
Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms



and ICD 10

F60.30 Impulsive type
At least three of the following must be present, one of which must be (2):

marked tendency to act unexpectedly and without consideration of the consequences;
marked tendency to quarrelsome behaviour and to conflicts with others, especially when impulsive acts are thwarted or criticized;
liability to outbursts of anger or violence, with inability to control the resulting behavioural explosions;
difficulty in maintaining any course of action that offers no immediate reward;
unstable and capricious mood.
It is a requirement of ICD-10 that a diagnosis of any specific personality disorder also satisfies a set of general personality disorder criteria.

F60.31 Borderline type
At least three of the symptoms mentioned in F60.30 Impulsive type must be present [see above], with at least two of the following in addition:

disturbances in and uncertainty about self-image, aims, and internal preferences (including sexual);
liability to become involved in intense and unstable relationships, often leading to emotional crisis;
excessive efforts to avoid abandonment;
recurrent threats or acts of self-harm;
chronic feelings of emptiness.

Yeah great match for somebody with ASD (sarcasm).
No wonder you keep triggering his meltdowns, follows the recurrent threats or acts of self harm mold pretty well.

I am not going to go into "lets blame the aspie for meltdowns" especially considering the situation. I am completely sympathetic to him regarding the situation. While I am female, and I have been in abusive relationships (including my family), I am not going to call somebody who is melting down "abusive" especially if it is intentionally and repeatidly triggered, which in this case, it pretty clearly is. Yes, meltdowns can be diminished as one gets better coping skills, but if one completely assualts ones coping skills like she has, I have a hard time being one lick sympathetic with a person who does that. It takes a very stable relationship and life to learn these coping skills. One does not learn these automatically, it takes time and patience to address this on the other partners part. It also takes avoiding things THAT CAUSE MELTDOWNS. Something she is going to have to learn to avoid. Which means no more pestering, if you do not get immediate resolution you are going to have to deal with it. My advice is to ask him questions in which he has a couple of days to think it over, don't demand an immediate response. These sensative issues need patience on the part of the person asking them, and realize answers are not always up for discussion.

I am completely sympathetic to people being abused and abusive situations. But truth be told, I have no sympathy for people who find themselves on the wrong end of a meltdown because they keep triggering it even though they know what causes them.

Last edited by starygrrl on 02 Mar 2010, 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IMO, meltdowns are no excuse for verbal or physical violence.

I've learn to constructively control my anger just by taking courses in managing it. There are ways in which a person can constructively communicate with them if they're having a problem. Resort to verbal tantrums is just asking for a disaster.

Aspergers or not, there's no need for what he's doing and I certainly wouldn't add children into the mess. My dad behaved the same exact way toward my mom and it was a torture for us kids to have to watch.

+1

sociable_hermit and HopeGrows both have some very good comments. They may seem mutually exclusive at first glance, but with balance, they are not.

sociable_hermit gives valuable insight into how ntchick's guy may be interpreting the situation. However despite the typical AS tendencies in such relationships, it's still a relationship requiring at least some level of social skill, so HG's comments about how the guy ought to learn how to convey himself without melting down are spot on. He needs to know how to handle disagreements at home, and needs to learn how to discuss things peacefully and patiently, like an adult should. That's not to say that he must be required to be infinitely patient; if after calm discussion ntchick continues to "pester" him (although I saw no evidence that she does), he should not be obligated to stay so well composed. I should add also, that I wholeheartedly agree with the other posters who said that bringing a baby into this situation is definitely NOT a good idea. If ntchick still wants to try to get him to change his mind, have a third party casually bring the topic up, as sociable_hermit alluded to. Having ntchick discuss it directly with her guy won't work for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being that as she has a vested interest in the result, she would put pressure towards a specific outcome. He needs to see the positives of having a child on his own (i.e. independent of specifically her pressure), in order for him to come around. This kind of approach is only necessary until he learns some social skills to handle more direct communicative approaches, and even after that, can still be used to conserve his energy.

starygrrl: Sorry, but to say that you understand what it's like to handle meltdowns because you see your boyfriend handle your own is way off base. That is a second-party approach to learning, and is vastly different from a first-hand approach. You will only truly understand what it's like to handle meltdowns when you have to deal with somebody else's meltdown first-hand. Then you will know how much it totally sucks, and just how unfair it can totally be. Regardless of what triggers the meltdowns, you do not have free reign to do whatever mayhem you want. My dad dealt with his meltdowns by being verbally and physically abusive. If I washed the dishes just a little too loudly, out came the belt and the yelling. Watching a boy getting beaten by his dad is totally different from getting beaten yourself. To think they are somehow identical is beyond naive.

@Starygrrl, for the record, I think BPD/ASD matches are not good matches. (I know, I know - I've heard from Aspie men who actually prefer BPD women, and you're entitled to your preference, guys. I'm just not optimistic about the longevity or happiness of those relationships.)

My ex sister-in-law had BPD, and I as much as I liked her (and I did), she was a nightmare to deal with. She was a nightmare wife for my brother, and a nightmare mother for my niece. I know my experience with her was one experience with one BPD woman, but it was an experience that lasted years - and it was enough to last a lifetime.

When an ASD person with little or no experience with relationships (or worse, comes from a dysfunctional family, so they may have a skewed idea of what relationships are supposed to be like), embarks upon a relationship with a BPD person....it doesn't strike me as a recipe for a happy, healthy relationship. A BPD person is a lot for an NT to cope with - with an Aspie, it's not even a fair fight. Yes, a BPD person engages in the behaviors you listed, and that can be devastating to an Aspie. More to the point, it can teach an Aspie that BPD behavior - which is abusive, chaotic, destructive, hateful, etc. - is acceptable between two people who are supposed to love each other. And that type of damage takes a huge, committed effort to repair. And if the damage isn't repaired, that Aspie is going to go through life repeating the same terrible behaviors he/she learned in the context of that ASD/BPD relationship - and that's a waste. I know that from first-hand experience, and it still makes me sad.

What bothers me about your take on the situation, Starygrrl, is how unilateral your view is. I fully recognize, and have stipulated to the idea that ntchick's behavior could absolutely be exacerbating the situation. But both people have to make changes - significant changes - in order to see an improvement in the relationship. If ntchick just keeps her mouth shut, will the meltdowns stop? Maybe. Will that address her problems with the relationship? No. Are her needs important? Yes. Are his needs important? Yes. Are their needs important to each other? I don't know the answer to that. The first step to solving a problem is to acknowledge that it exists - and both ntchick and her bf are contributing to this problem. That means they're both going to have to contribute to the solution.

stinkypuppy, I come from an abusive home environment. I know what it means to be struck, and alot of my own work on my meltdowns has come from me working on myself and taking myself out of hostile situations to work on them. The way I view this situation, is it is directly hostile for the person with an ASD, dealing with somebody with a personality disorder often can be hostile, ESPECIALLY BPD. Being in an inherantly stressful situation can exaserbate the issues with ASD. I know this from experience. At the same time there is a great deal of responsibility from a person who is a partner of somebody with an ASD. If you have any understanding of what thier triggers are, it is a good idea to discuss what those triggers are not continuing to perpetuate them. To say that the person with the ASD is the person solely at fault in this situation is a complete falacy, both are being abusive to each other, and to me there is no question about that. Yes, his refusal to work on his meltdowns is a problem, without question, he needs to work on them with help from a professional. Pushing him into situations where he is melting down though, knowing that he melts down, is just as problematic. Though repeating harm situations is very BPD, people with Borderline personality disorder very much like to play victim and intentionally put themselves in that role, often pushing people to explode on them. I highly suggest you look up what BPD is, it is not the right type of person for somebody with an ASD to be around. Like I said, I am a bit more judgemental because AS is only part of the problem, people with BPD put other people in extremely stressful/argumentative situations. Even for NT, handling things calmly with them is very difficult because they have a tendancy to make things into conflicts/arguements. This can be nervewracking to be around someone like this if you have an ASD, worse than bipolar. Borderline is amplifying some of the worst NT traits, and twisting them. Sorry if I don't have much sympathy for her, but borderline folks are known for this sort of crap. The minute she said she had BPD I had a feeling what was going on in this situation. The reality is, it is very unhealthy for them to be together, because she does not have the right skillset, and being around somebody with borderline can be destructive relationship for somebody with AS. Its a total mismatch. I am not seeing her as a regular or abused NT woman. I am seeing her as somebody with BPD, who often intentionally pushes people to the point they react. I have been around enough borderline people to know they are bad news.

From what she put forth she IS pestering him to the point of melting down.

It took me YEARS to work on this issue, and mostly on my own, I am still not done, I will say my boyfriend helped me out alot.


I completely agree, getting a child in this mix is a mistake and completely wrong. The environment is completely hostile on both ends, and getting a child involved would make a bad situation worse. BOTH of them need to work on thier issues first and foremost. He does have to work on his meltdowns, I am not disagreeing with that, but she needs to work on communication approaches as well. Right now the situation as it stands is completely messed up, and honestly I cannot look at this situation and think these two even belong together, it would be healthier on both thier parts if they were not.

There is absolutely no excuse for violence or abuse in a relationship, whether it is 'deliberately' nasty or otherwise. It should never be seen as something that 'can happen.


Ok, Starrygirl, this completely out of line. The OP has said she was diagnosed with BPD and has been working on her issues. That doesn't mean she's perfect. No one is, but your over-generalised comments are despicable. I am disgusted that someone with a psychological problem of her own is calling the kettle black (and whatever you see AS as itself, out-of-control meltdowns are certainly a problem)

There is no evidence that NTchick is pulling any kind of 'crap' other than normal concerns about her relationship, which a lot of people have, AS or NT. You have no evidence that she is 'bad news' or that she is pushing her boyfriend any harder than anyone else would in her situation. It just so happens that her boyfriend has AS and reacts badly to pressure.

You may have had some bad problems with BPD people in the past, but this woman has come here asking for help. Stop attacking her.

Over generalized, black-white thinking is part of ASD, but my comments are coming directly from what she wrote, it is seeing something in plain sight for me. But at least I know enough about BPD to know exactly what she is trying to pull here, thankfully my empathy only goes so far, otherwise I would have been pulled into the manipulation as well. People with borderline are known to push and pester people to point of ever escalating arguements, then try to drum up sympathy that folks they argue with are being "abusive" when those folks react to thier behaviors, or at least make it seem that way. People with BPD are known to wear down peoples controls and defenses and find themselves in these situations regularly. Somebody with an ASD defenses are much weaker than your average NT and prone to meltdowns in stressful situations, so they are open to get more of a reaction. Next to sociopaths, people with Borderline are probably one of the most manipulative group of folks there is. It is taking a NT bad habits regarding manipulation and empathy and twisting them to an extreme. While I am completely sympathetic to folks with Bipolar, depression, anxiety and schizophrenia, my line stops at borderline and sociopaths. They are both extremely manipulative disorders, and in this case I am calling the situation as I see it. He needs therapy for his meltdowns, no question, but she needs to really work on her issues and quit pushing him to have the meltdowns, which she clearly knows she is perpetuating.

I have my own problems and I am dealing with them, I have therapist and I am dealing with my meltdown issues, and my meltdowns are infrequent. But I am not going to be sympathetic to somebody who is borderline, who clearly is not working on her problems (from what it sounds like she is not going to a therapist, even though she is following one of the classic behavioral patterns of somebody with borderline), and her problems are causing distress to folks around here. And make no mistake that "pestering" and "nagging" she is doing IS part of the problem of borderline personality disorder, whether you realize it or not. This is part of the manipulative behavior of borderline, at least I know it well enough to catch onto this situation as a whole. I don't see it as a pot calling the kettle black situation. This grouping of personality disorders is known to try to tell these stories to drum up sympathy, but they also grind at people close to them to the point where people close to them start reacting. In reality many of thier problems are of thier own making. Folks with borderline are known to make people around them crazy, and for good reason. I just saw what was going on from the start, for me it was pretty easy to tell. It is not necessarily an attack. But the way I see it, is this is a massively screwed up situation where they both need to break up and see a therapist, and most importantly, not have a kid. This is a hostile environment and these people should not be around each other, and both parties get the blame. But I am not going to be manipulated into being sympathetic.

I agree that they are a mismatch and while he has a temper that he has to harness if he ever wants a successful relationship...the fact that she nags and nags and doesn't give up, when she knows what the answer is already...it's akin to going up to a criminal with a gun and mouthing off to him.

While I went on for awhile (tendancy to verbally ramble), this is the short version. Some couples are just not meant to be together and the relationship lasts too long. Its best if it ends before it escalates any more.

@starygirl:

I understand that my partner has meltdowns. I believe I phrased it that way in my initial post. I would like to know how to help deal with them more effectively. What are some of the things your boyfriend does to help you when you have them?

Also, I understand that me initiating conversation on certain topics is difficult for him, but these are IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIP ISSUES which *could* and probably *will* make or break the relationship. I will not live in a state of limbo because he says "I don't know" all the time. That's the thing, if he's pressured to give a "Yes or No" answer, as you suggest, THAT'S when his meltdowns happen. He now knows that he has to man up and work out the "I don't know"s and form them into "Yesses" or "No's" because the future of our relationship depends on it.

I understand that concessions have to be made when you are living with someone on an intimate level who has AS. There are, however, certain concessions I am not willing to make, and those involve being a victim of domestic violence, being taken for granted or making every single relationship decision by myself. If I wanted to make all the decisions myself I would be single.

With regards to my BPD: If you read the original post you will see that I stated that I "used to be Borderline". If you read studies about BPD you will learn that it's very prevalent in women in their late teens and early 20's but by the time they reach 30 the chemicals have all but rebalanced themselves and it simply "goes away" or episodes diminish so much that they are hardly an issue. I am 40 years old. I don't "pull crap", as you suggest. I am an emotionally intelligent, introspective natural health practitioner who knows a fair bit about psychology and applies it to herself and others in clinical context. I have a happy and fulfilling career and as a job, I do what I believe I was put on this earth to do, so I don't crave attention, I have no reason to. I am mostly logical and very calm. And I believe that I have a right, within a relationship, to be able to discuss important issues calmly with my partner and recieve some valid feedback from him, rather than have to put up with is incessant fence-sitting.

I think the assumptions you are making about me are completely unwarranted and have no basis in reality. I am blatantly honest and never, EVER lie about anything. I do NOT manipulate people and prefer to immediately remove myself from others who do. I'm sorry if you have had bad experiences with someone with Borderline before, but you should understand that each case is individual, and each person is different, and perhaps not assume things about people based on your own life experiences with others, not them in particular. Part of my personal issues stem from my parenting - absent father and mother with paranoid schizophrenia - I basically raised myself and had minimal instruction about how to behave as an adult. It just came naturally to me to be emotionally intelligent.

You will note that *nowhere*, in *any* of these posts have I suggested that my partner is abusive. I have simply related what has happened and *other people* have indicated that they view this behaviour as abusive. I have stated that it is not acceptable for him to not do anything about his anger issues, and I am trying to find a way to help him with the problem. Not talking about things, as you seem to be suggesting that I just shut my mouth about issues that are important to the relationship's existence, DOES NOT HELP, it just makes things worse, because nobody knows what's going on.
Communication is the important thing here and I just need to know how to do it effectively.

To the others who suggested we are badly matched and should end our relationship:

1. Go take a flying leap off the nearest cliff.

2. We are in love.

3. We are committed to doing what we need to do to work on our relationship and keep each other and ourselves happy.

4. We are not going to break up.

5. The reason I posted this stuff on here was to get some constructive advice on how to handle things in our current situation, possibly from people who might have had a similar experience and be able to offer viable suggestions about how to proceed.

6. I did not expect to be abused, told I am an idiot, accused of being crazy and told that my boyfriend with whom I'm in love and in a well established relationship and I should break up because we aren't suited to each other (when we get along REALLY well in every other way but those I mentioned in the first post) by people who have never even met us and consequently have no idea.

Thus far, there have been some interesting replies, some full of crap, some great. I just think that the argument has been taken too far and applied to some people's own personal situations when it bears no relevance there.

Thanks Lene, I appreciate you sticking up for me.

I asked my boyfriend to read this thread last night. He said that he thought Social Hermit's comments about AS were pretty accurate in terms of how he's been feeling. He has also agreed to go to counselling with me, and has indicated that he's committed to doing stuff about fixing the problems we're having together.

I don't have time for much more right now but will be back later to finish reading the mounds of replies to this post. Thank you everyone for your opinions.

Deleted after reading OP's latest post.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Hi, therange,

None of those statements are the truth.