Some things I've learned about people and women

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There was a time where I started getting into that scene as well, but I stopped short of going out with other guys. Nowadays, I've dropped it entirely, in favor of more inward focus, the whole 'inner game' arena. I get the impression we're in some agreement, on that.

Man, I can see some of the gold in what you're saying here(I too know the satisfaction and results of an updated wardrobe).
But(having not read your responses yet) I have the sinking feeling you're gonna get trashed for proposing any focus on some of these so-called superficial things. People around here will flat out reject anything that seems like 'appearances,' no matter how tied it may be to your inward state. I advise caution....

LOL good luck convincing people of that. Though, yes, I agree 100%.

Well said... That pretty much is the big thing I noticed.
But from your tone, you seem to feel this is not something that can be mitigated. I'm a little monotone, but not all that much, and I try to make it a point to speak with engaging tones(I learned this from a roommate, a master story teller & conversationalist. A natural, as we'd call 'em, at least in that respect.) Through my attempt at changing my tone, I feel like I've seen improvement. You have not had success at this? Have you given it a solid shot?

Maybe you've got a larger dose of the monotone, un-emotional thing than I do (I'm definitely abstract & detatched like you tho), but personally I've had some luck with addressing those. Usually I kinda try to put myself in their frame of mind(which is admittedly tiring), but it makes it a lot easier to respond more 'appropriately.' I don't feel like this element weirds people out anymore, at least.
So consider that a vote of confidence that I think you'll have some luck with that.

Here, I don't entirely agree. Because the things you go on to describe, like not being needy, are 100% dependent on your frame of mind and inner game, your self esteem, confidence, your comfort with yourself. And you can improve that mindset stuff through reading(In part!), and realizing new perspectives that you hadn't considered.

I agree that actual 'hands-on' is critical, as the big picture is certainly composed of many small pictures. But without enough understanding of the big picture(through reading), you could assemble those details into a less useful result. You can go through the motions of acting how a non-needy person acts, do something like a confident person would do, practice how to handle an amog how a secure leader would, and even get good at acting in that way. But with enough attention to how the little things relate to the big picture, the inner-game theoretics, you can actually become that confident person, genuinely(albeit, incrementally over time).
...Btw, when I say you, I don't mean you personally, of course.

Glad you posted, btw, good to see someone making progress, in some form.

For my part, I got out of the pick-up picture when I realized that women were not the solution to my issues, no more than alcohol the solution to sadness. It's got it's uses in recognizing how things really work, opening your eyes, but boy does the community miss the larger point, sometimes, of what it takes to be happy. Everything else, relationships included, follows from that more-contented, somewhat more self-satisfied state of mind.
IMO, anyways.

You're missing the point. It's not stuff to remember. It's stuff to absorb.
You don't act according to whats typed, you act according to how you think and feel, as influenced(or not) by what you read. In other words, they're not directions on how to act, they're directions on a perspective shift.

There are no words to say this concept correctly.

I will ask you, in case I misunderstood, but how are your dates different
than ones that people who describe themselves with the words "Pick-up"?

There is no english word for the secret language of love that is so secret
that women deny its existence out of its subconscious nature, and because
it is subconscious to them they cannot even speak without lieing about
why they don't like someone, because they don't know. It is no good that
all women think all men are jerks and say so to their nice shy friends who
didn't learn the secret code in the "popular club" and therefore aren't getting
the message that the nice guys like them MORE. Everyone would be
happier if they could COMMUNICATE. The women don't know why they
don't like nice guys while they complain about jerks. The nice guys don't
know either... until now.
What will happen in the future?
1.The media will change the code, unless it is THE instinct based code.
2.Everyone will communicate over the internet without the code.
3.Women will collectively and consciously tune the code for better results,
now that they are aware of its effect on them. This is unlikely because they
don't know what they want until the code tells them they want it. Ladies,
the reason TV commercials work on you is because they are full of code.
4.On archive.org or wayback machine there is a 1950 film called WHAT TO
DO ON A DATE. If everyone agrees THAT doesn't work anymore,
then the code is programmed into female minds by Television.
Obama told you to vote for him in code.
If you don't like this code, control yourselves, and let's all figure out
... How ALBERT EINSTEIN had girlfriends!

This strikes me as an unfair assumption. There's some useful knowledge and perspectives from that community, and it is not necessarily chauvinistic or manipulative. Some is. Lots isn't.

I'm gonna give it a serious shot, but it's honest to God hard work. I feel like I'm gonna need to bust out the video camera and film myself talking to really see where I need to work. My eye contact isn't quite right either, but it's SO much better than it used to be. I can seduce some girls just by giving them some direct EC from across the room and I'll end up getting approached by them on the dance floor. Once I start talking, they might fly away, haha, but very often these girls are very on and are gonna stick around regardless of how much of a dork I am.

The improvements that working on EC gave me were absolutely ridiculous (I mean, how are you even gonna tell a girl likes you without looking her in the eye??), game changing stuff. This will be more subtle, I think. Definitely important, though.

Nice way of thinking about PU advice, sound. Whenever I read something really good, that's what happens.

They aren't that much different, actually! It's what got me to the date in the first place that is a lot smoother and confident than what most normal people do. I'm not going to get nervous about asking for a girl's number, showing her that I'm interested in her from the get go, and I'm going to do it with an attitude like I don't care if I get rejected, because honestly, I don't give a s**t. She's just one girl. I've probably been rejected like 20-30 times now by random women, another rejection is just another girl I don't let get to my head.

What I will do on dates, though, is start turning the vibe into something sexual right from the get go.

I actually agree with one point by the OP...the women he's attracted, he could have attracted when he was inexperienced. He just put himself out there to meet them.

What I mean is, when I met my ex on facebook, a few months before I'd met her, I'd already started writing a book about the first 25 years (at that point) of my life and the realizations I'd come to. Then one day I'm on facebook, and we chat it up. When we met in person a month later, I made a lot of rookie mistakes, despite my new knowledge and slightly better social skills and she didn't care.

If a woman is flat-out interested in you, the only thing that's going to turn her off, like the OP said, is if you're incredibly shy to the point where you don't talk to her at all, don't look her in the eyes or anything. Unfair or not, that's a turnoff to them.

As long as you are outgoing and not obnoxious, the rest of your quirks will be overlooked, at least temporarily, by a girl that's really interested in you.

I think if a lot of the guys on here just went out and talked to any woman that they weren't disgusted by or turned off for some reason, after talking to a number of women, maybe even only a few, they'd meet one who liked them back.

I also think every guy has to take a hard look at himself, his physical appearance, his potential to improve his physical appearance, etc., and realize what league he's in and who he's capable of attracting. I think a lot of guys on here probably are average looking at best and want to date the "hot" girl that can get any guy she wants.

People REALLY underestimate how important that bit is... Whether overt or implied, subtle or direct.
They'll talk about just stuff, and focus on being conversant and pleasant and nice and whatnot, but they forget that it isn't just about whether or not you're a good person. Suitable relationship qualities do not = chemistry.
That's something I still have to work on, keeping things non-neutral, keep it flirtatious, keep escalating, never let it get mundane. I used to think just keeping it fun was enough.... That's a big part and all, but missing out on the sexual tension is no good.

...When I'm dating, that is... lol. Right now I do jack s**t for flirting and meeting people!
But that's OK, I got other other things to address before I start looking outward again.

I don't know if I already answered your question, but you need to start looking women you're romantically interested in directly in the eyes when you talk to them. By doing this, you will be able to read their facial expressions MUCH easier. On top of this, you are transmitting the message that you are interested in her in a somewhat subtle way. Lots of aspies don't even look at eyes when they talk to people (I know I didn't before I started making a conscious effort to). Also, it will definitely be a lot of initially ambiguous information to you as someone with Asperger's, but eventually, meaning will start to emerge out of the configurations of facial muscles and eye gaze patterns.

Girls lay it on rather thick when they're interested. You will see one or more combinations of these as you talk to an interested girl. Here are some indicators of interest:
-As soon as the EC lingers for more than the normal period of time in non-romantic interactions, she might look down and blush a bit
-Sometimes, when she looks back up she begins to mimic your direct EC and also look you right in the eye with wide pupils. This is often accompanied by a nice, warm smile.
-She laughs a lot, even at stupid things you say.
-She starts playing with her hair.
-Blushing.
-Playfully hitting you after you tease her a bit. (Example: I once told a super cute girl that's a med student "So, you're smart. Hmm, you know what? I can't talk to you anymore, I fall in love with really smart girls" and I pretended to walk away. She was all giggly, and punched me in the arm. I got her number that evening, took her out for a date the next day, and slept with her that same evening. She studies in FL most of the year and I live in CT, so it can't turn into anything serious.)
-Smiles at you as you're walking by giving her some direct EC (kind of rare, but it does happen if you're wearing cool clothes, are well-groomed, and look friendly). Say hi, god dammit!! She's going to be like a giddy school girl.
-Smiles way too much as you're talking to her.
-Winks at you (this is totally subconscious sometimes).
-Starts doing this triangle gaze where her gaze dances between each eye and your mouth in a triangle sort of trajectory. This means she wants you to kiss her, but once you even get to this point, the two of you are in close physical proximity and you DEFINITELY know something is up.
-She's continuing to talk to you even when she has no reason to and you're a stranger.
-She touches your arms (biceps).
-She looks at you and talks to her friend, maybe giggles a little, and then looks back at you as you're passing by.
-She looks unusually happy to be talking to you (again, you must look at her to notice this!!)
-She initiates the conversation with you as a complete stranger with no reason to talk to her (DING DING DING, so long as you don't do anything stupid or eject from the conversation, you are in)

They're almost all non-verbal, because that's the channel of communication attraction/seduction happens in, there is no way around it whatsoever. For most of these things to happen, you need to make the vibe (vibe being some complex combination of body language and conversation material) somewhat light hearted and fun. Not always, though. Importantly, you MUST not hesitate to escalate the vibe further once you see these things.

Try making eye contact and having a friendly expression on your face with random girls as you're walking by them. Make sure to be well-groomed and be wearing nice, fashionable clothes when you're out doing this. You'll see what I mean. Better yet, approach a girl that shoots you a smile by asking for directions or whatever and transition to talking about why she's out today.

To show you how much progress I've made, I tell girls that I approach that I have asperger's in a light hearted, joking (but sort of serious) manner whenever they're talking to me for more than 5 minutes. I remember once doing it to sabatoge my chances with a girl who liked me who had a BF before I started approaching tons of women and thinking it was going to be so embarassing. Now I do it as a joke and I don't care if people know I have asperger's. I think it'd be awesome if I got a nickname like Spergy Sean. Nobody believes me anymore, but that's because they don't really understand the disorder. Although, one girl that really knows me well (med school girl) told me "Oh yeah, that makes sense. You make me smile, though. I think it's part of why I like you." There are girls out there that find friendly, well-adjusted asperger's dudes with confidence and some charm irresistible and it's your job to let them find you. Unfortunately, they are not as common as the girls that like fist pumping jock types, so you need to screen as many girls as possible.

The thing is, OP, you're speaking over the heads of a lot of guys on here (I'm not one of them.) A lot of guys on here feel awkward even checking out a girl that they find attractive, and they have women on pedestals. Also, a lot of guys on here don't care at all about their physical appearance, losing weight, wearing nice clothes, then expect a girl to like them anyway.

This may be a step in a better direction, but going through women like toilet paper is not the end-all-be-all answer. Not taking everything personally and caring about how you come across is important, however.

As for men putting women on a pedestal....have you read most of the threads here? I think most men here think women are low class citizens that will never live up to the expectations of men or be capable of the quality of conversation that men are.

Which head are you talking about? Cha cha cha.



He's quoting 'The 40 Year Old Virgin' with the pedestal line. Nice to know that Hollywood is a good source of advice. It's not completely inaccurate for some, but the "putting a woman on a pedestal" line is becoming as vague and annoyingly cliché as "be confident" or "be yourself".

A pickup theory eh'? i didnt know there was a set rule on how to pick up girls

I don't mean going through 100 women, Michelle. Also, by putting on a pedestal, I mean that they see a pretty woman or a woman they're interested in and think "She'd never like me. She doesn't piss and sh*t like everyone else" etc., and usually it's because the guys have limited if no experience at all with associating with any women.

Yea, I can see that. There is a definite fear.

Honestly guys, we women are approachable. And one point of the OP's post is very valid: don't take rejection as something personal. It won't work with everyone. You have to find the right one, and the only way to find the right one, is to meet the wrong ones.