Flirting boundaries

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Bare in mind that creepy isn't defined by actions, it's defined by perception. So in order for that hug to be creepy, she needs to feel it's uncomfortable and creepy, whereas it's okay and not a creepy action with someone who doesn't see anything wrong with receiving such a hug.

So one of the things that might make a woman feel like such a thing is creepy would be by picking up on a previously uncommunicated romantic interest in that moment, aka hidden agenda.

Another similar thing would be feel that she's getting disproportionate focus/consideration/attention, that the other person is 'too' interested.

Another would be doing things that don't seem to be normal, things that most people wouldn't do or say for whatever reason.

Therefore, per what's been said earlier in the thread, no action is innately okay or creepy. It's all hinges on the other person's momentary perception, mood, whatever. Still, there are some things that are probably not okay for most guys to do..

Heres another example of Double standard at play.

If this man:

Said "Can I at least have a hug for coming over and talking to you"

Would it be creepier if this man:

Said "Can I at least have a hug for coming over and talking to you"

Also creepy is a very complex thing.

Things like tone of voice, loudness of voice, type of breathing, way they're holding themselves, what they do with their faces, how close they stand to you, what sort of social vibe they give off, what they do with their arms and legs, whether humour is involved - all can add or subtract creepiness from a persons behaviour.

The whole "can I at least have a hug for coming over and talking to you" can be made more or less creepy by the above things, but it instantly came across to me as a guy who looks at an attractive woman through a hole in the fence jerking off in public.

Dang. That's a pretty hot dude, besides the douchey hair.

The top one, isn't it obvious?
JEEZE...

Well, it was to *me* but you never can tell about some people's tastes...

Just read her non-verbals before you even open your mouth. The easiest way to do this is to make direct eye contact with her before you even talk to her. If she smiles at you, it's probably on. If she holds the eye contact with you for an extended period of time, it's most likely on. If she blushes, it's most likely on. If she does any combination of the above, it's on.

When I say "it's on," I mean that she isn't going to turn down a friendly interaction with you. She might still reject your romantic advances, although as soon as the above non-verbals get combined, the odds of your romantic advances getting rejected diminish greatly.

As a general rule, I think it is poor form to make your romantic intentions verbally explicit with women. They respond much better to non-verbal indications of romantic interest. Nothing says "I'm interested" better than direct eye contact, imo. You can be talking about the most boring, mundane things, but if the rhythm of your voice is seductive and your eye contact is direct, you are flirting with her. Add in some touching and you are no longer flirting with her, but rather, seducing her. Her non-verbals are going to be practically yelling at you to touch her if she's stuck around for >5 minutes of you looking her right in the eye, talking quietly/deeply, and sticking to light conversational material. Obviously start with friendly areas like touching her shoulder to accentuate a point (I start doing this right from the beginning) and start standing closer to her.

I personally have NO idea how to tease women (or people in general), which means my verbal flirting abilities are poor as hell because teasing is 99% of verbal flirting. While I am a master of the so-called 'neg', I feel like I simply make women very insecure and hurt their feelings by doing it. I don't like to do that, so I don't 'neg' girls anymore. I used to do it with girlfriends, and eventually, they'd begin to feel like everything they did wasn't enough.

It helps a lot to be a little bit taller than average, good looking, well dressed/well groomed, confident in the way you move/hold your body/speak, and not fat.

Agreed on much of that... glad you've ditched the neg...
But the problem here, I think, is that a lot of guys don't know when/how to touch, for instance. Or when to hold prolonged eye contact. How to play off putting your hand on a girls shoulder, for instance. Some of the ladies around here will straight out say "That's creepy," but when you do it, somehow it's not creepy. Defining how that interaction works is the real trick, I think...
Personally, I've basically got the hang of most that, but despite by ability to define other elements, I can't quite summon a logic behind this... Besides my earlier "comfort progression" posts, at least.

Boy this thread's sub-topics are really blending with the other one, "How to come across as creepy."

*sigh* In the end, though, it ends up also relying so much on looks... So either way, folks, if you're not working out, start working out. And re-asses your wardrobe.

Three things which I was never comfortable with, that supposedly are essential:

1. Touching (e.g. on the arm or shoulder)
2. Half-jokingly "hinting" at sexual or romantic interest
3. Teasing

I might be a bit better with the third one than I was, but I suspect it still doesn't come off very well when I do it.

Yeah, well, one thing to consider: You now decisively know to consider three critical items that I didn't know until I was about 25, so you're doing better than I did. Now, at 28, I have some success. So from that perspective, you're doin alright, and have a lot to look forward to if you keep at it. Sure, you'll be pretty rocky about it early on, but hey, if that's the toll, it's not so bad.

That said, I still can't tease for the life of me... Not men, and definitely not women. It's just not how my mind works. =op
Fortunately, it's not the only tool in the flirting arsenal...