So, why can women get away with working at like Vitaman Cott

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Yes, that is very true. But you really only end up as a doormat if you make yourself a doormat, for example, insisting on doing things for people when you really don't want to do them, or having trouble saying "no" when it's perfectly warranted, or you have planted yourself in the "friend zone" and think you should get something for being so chivalrous, or if you are with a disrespectful partner.

But my point was, in this post, that since Joe has ambition and leadership issues, and does not want to take the responsibility for making a decision, should it turn out to be the wrong one, he hoists all of this responsibility on his partner and frequently, the women leave him because in essence his role in the relationship becomes akin to that of a child. Children usually look to their parents to make all the decisions, and a woman does not want her husband or boyfriend to be a child.

So though Joe may buy her flowers, open doors for her, and buys her candy and such, he doesn't contribute his share of practicality and direction to the relationship.

Privileges come with responsibilities. Rights are unconditional.

Anyway I have never encountered the type of woman of which you speak. I'd be delighted if my hypothetical boyfriend/husband wanted to do the cooking. And I don't expect men to like watching sports.

So, chronos.(you sound like a 30 something single man hater might I add)


Is it fair for men to expect women to invest lot of money into plastic surgery and working out just to look pretty?

you got me here...

You would only like me to be a man hater so you feel justified in your hatred of women.

Thankfully most men are well adjusted people and I certainly do not rank them amongst the likes of men (and women) like yourself.


As to your question about plastic surgery, though I believe it's a poor analogy...I would not date a man like this, nor would I insist that he has an obligation to date me under any circumstances, nor would I hate him for his preferences.

If a man wants a woman with a perfect body, he's perfectly welcome by me to go out and find her. He'll have a hard time doing so, and women who go through such lengths typically are the shallow gold diggers who DO care how much he makes for the pure financial value. I'm not his type, he's not mine, so I don't care.

I've only every raised the issue of looks because many men on here were under the false impression that any woman can get any guy she wants, and I was illustrating how that is a false perception.

Last edited by Chronos on 30 Oct 2010, 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Agreed. Don't make a partner do all the work, split the work and it'll take a lot of work off of a partner.

And what happens if I make a wrong decision? I can't make a right decision more than 5% of the time, let alone all the time... When I was in a relationship i had a nightmare that I took my then gf out to an expensive italian restaurant, only to find out she didn't like italian. What am I supposed to do when I pull off stupid **** like that?

The very least I can do is control my expectations of others. By letting a partner choose, I can then make sure that even a decision that isn't optimal for me won't undermine the relationship. If I choose, and I choose wrong, it's over...

Any woman who would have dumped you for taking her to an Italian place because you didn't know she didn't like Italian should have been dumped by you a while ago. Unless of course she told you many many times she didn't like Italian and you didn't listen/remember not only that, but a whole host of other things.

I think you are undermining the relationship by "letting" her choose all the time. Most women will eventually interpret this in the manner I explained above....or they will conclude you're boring. If she wants to choose what to do all the time then she might as well do it by herself.

+1

AHHHH ah ah ahhhh. Did you ever think that maybe it's not your job that's the problem?? Or any of the other things that you complain about?

You do realize that as a guy advances in a career.....his value goes up...same with personality.....and muscles

I think the main reason for your trouble in regards to this is your warped views on society. Have you ever considered that its not your job potential dates don't like? Maybe you're just trying to avoid the actual problem.

Believe it or not , there are plenty of women (um....majority?) who prefer the typical guys who like outdoor sport activities and play cards with buddies , who don't clean their room , don't do workhouse except carrying heavy things rather than men who cook and clean.

If myself and my partner both worked full time, I would expect him to share the cooking responsibilities.

...Yeah, that just sounds rather stupid on their part. Stereotypes, what can you do?

President Obama doesn't look like a body builder to me....neither does Arnold Schwarzenegger now days.

You advance in career, in part, because of personality. Not the other way around.

The only real difference between Ted and Joe, relevant to their occupational progress, was their personalities. Joe actually has a little more education than Ted because he completed highschool and went and some community college certificate program. Ted is a highschool drop out and couldn't afford any college. In fact Ted comes from a poor, working class family and his father spent most of the time in prison, while Joe comes from stable, middle class family and his father has a degree in business.

Even though Joe should theoretically have had an advantage compared to Ted...in fact statistics say Ted should be in prison, Joe's self defeatists personality and fear of leadership and responsibility inhibit him from obtaining things in life he'd really like to obtain. Ted, on the other hand, doesn't really spend much time, if any, dwelling on these issues.

But if you're so concerned about muscle and if having muscle will make you feel more confident because you think all women want muscle men, why don't you start lifting weights? Most men bulk up fairly quickly unless they are ectomorphs.

I can tell you how to do this if you like.