Cyber spying/stalking, am I obsessed and a creep

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If you are looking for a logical reason as to her behavior, I do not think you will find an answer that will satisfy you. People do not always act in a logical manner. Their emotions can be complex, vague, and conflicting. They can posses feelings which they cannot articulate, and feelings for which there are no words, and the way they cope with them may make little sense to another person.

For example, I will admit that I don't understand why you would continue to pursue a girl who does not want contact with you. In my mind, this is a waste of time for various reasons, and I would not want someone who I like to see me in a negative light. I will be honest, I cannot empathize with you in this situation, much as you cannot empathize with this girl. However I can accept that we must have very different perspectives in life, and though I do not understand your point of view, I can accept that I do not, and that your point of view is what it is, and leave it at that.

I think what he is after is talking to her one last time, patching their problems then going their seperate ways. What i've been trying to tell him is this hardly ever happens with a messy breakup of two single, young people. You just have to learn to live with it.

It's not great. But whats the gamble? Possibly sorting out the problems and not seeing each other in a bad light? It could very well he a restraining order and harassment charge.

Roll the dice, and which is it? It's not worth it.

Hello TheWeirdPig,

Besides what others have said, keep this in mind too:

Your ex-girlfriend may have brothers, a current boyfriend and/or male (or even female) friends who upon hearing her (side of the) story* may decide to skip the cops and deal out their own "street justice". Many men feel very protective of women - to the point of hunting down and beating the crap out of a man who they think is bothering the woman.

And when I say beating the crap out of, I don't mean just a couple of black eyes and a split lip, or even going to the "emergency room" and getting stitched up and released. If a guy much bigger and heavier than you decides he wants a piece of you, or your ex's friend decides to switch the odds in his favor by bringing a Louisville Slugger or a tire iron or a knife, or maybe a couple of friends, or even, say, just hides in the shadows of your front door and gets in a few good, hard blows before you can even think of responding, think broken bones, heavy bleeding, even brain damage.

Maybe even your death.

Do you want the last thing you see on Earth to be several guys standing over you, as you cough up gouts of blood, hear the rattling gurgle of your final breaths and wish you'd never called that girl or even met her? Or do you want to be bound to a wheelchair or unable to think straight for the rest of your life? Maybe your idea of a great turning point in your life is tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, that you'll never be able to come close to paying especially since you can never again work full-time?

TheWeirdPig, you strike me as young enough to still have your whole life ahead of you. Do you want to throw it all away over someone you'll never win back anyway?

Please - let her go and don't contact her ever again! For your sake if no one else's.

[*] Not to mention that even your own side casts you in a very bad light.

Thank you.

I was never anything but nice in every single contact I ever had with her, I never, NEVER sent her anything nasty, NEVER said ANYTHING nasty tho her, NEVER, not once. And if it was possible for any of you to talk to her (which is not), she would confirm that. In fact, I'm too nice.

There is a lot more to this girl than I've said here, and I know what I'm saying is VERY, VERY, VERY unpopular.

And yes, I do understand and empathize that she does want to be left alone.

And I really believe I've done a commendable job leaving her alone.

What I am mostly saying I feel that most people don't understand me and make me look much worse than I am.


Another thing. I have a very different view on the things than most people do. About five years ago, I was dating someone. After a while, I realized it wasn't going anywhere (due to her OCD and possible BPD). I broke it off, but before I broke it off I had already met someone else (which didn't end up working out . . . karma). Anyway, we remained friends for a while. I know I hurt her very badly, much more than I knew at the time. Anyway, she still calls me a couple times a year. I TAKE THE TIME TO TALK TO HER IF SHE NEEDS TO TALK TO ME. Most people wouldn't do that. I must be some sort of an oddball.

I'm not mad at any of you. Most of you are taking the popular stand on this. I am trying to get the world to take a different look at popular stands, and question if things could be looked at in a different way.

I really do appreciate the responses.

no. a commendable job would involve actually leaving her alone.

agreed

I feel like a creep.

Here's the thing. I really do feel bad for her. And I feel like I am a terrible person and all of you are confirming that.

She has a psycho obsessed stalker and she doesn't even know it. Why? Because I really don't want to stalk her.

And the last thing I would ever want to do is harm her. Looking at her public facebook profile is not harming her one iota of a bit and I would like to see any of you prove how it would be. How would she know I was looking at it (without probing MY computer, and that would mean she was stalking me)?

I'm really a good person.

I don't mind the criticism. I just want to make sure people understand me.

Oh dear, do you really think people who answered here are just repeating the "popular stand"? If you paid attention, some were in your situation themselves - they are just trying to help. I've been your ex's situation and that's why I can assure you - if you don't back off, she will end up despising you.

Hello TheWeirdPig,

I'm glad you're at least reading our responses. I'm not quite sure whether you're interested in our advice, or rather in persuading other people that the course of action you've already chosen is right.

Here's something I had to learn the hard way - When pretty much everyone else is on one side and you're on the other, very likely you're the one who's wrong and you don't even know it.

And it is very easy to be wrong and not know it. We all do that on little matters on a regular basis. It's like what Steven Wright once said: "I used to think that my brain was the most wonderful organ in my body. Then it occurred to me - look who's telling me this!"

Well, our own brains fool us about ourselves and our actions. For example, the College Board (which gives standardized tests to, among other people, high school upperclassmembers who want to go to college) found that 85% of high school upperclassmembers think they have better social skills than 50% of their peers - and 25% believe that they're in the top 1% of terms of social skills!

That's like one out of four garage band singers you meet thinking they even have a shot on American Idol.

Meanwhile, workplace surveys show over two out of three workers believe they are better performers than three out of four of their co-workers.*

The human mind does a very good job at playing up all the good stuff about ourselves, and rationalizing, minimizing, distorting or even out-and-out denying "conveniently forgetting" the not so good stuff.

When does that happen most? When you're really fouling up. As Cornell Psychology Professor David Dunning and Social Psychology graduate student Justin Kruger** found, the people with the most problems tend to most overestimate their abilities. That may be because if you don't know much about a given area, you may not even know what and how much you need to know.

TheWeirdPig, you've made it crystal clear to everyone except yourself that you have no idea how to handle breakups, or when to quit with someone who does not want to hear from you. You think you know, but it's your very thoughts that are deceiving you.

Listen to yourself. First you say "I feel like a creep. Here's the thing. I really do feel bad for her. And I feel like I am a terrible person and all of you are confirming that."

Then you say "I'm really a good person." Well, guess what? Good is what you do, not what you think about yourself.

You're in denial.

You said that looking at someone's public Facebook page is not harming her. True enough, but setting up a secret account to see her page when she's blocked you is. It's like the difference between reading a newspaper interview of her, and pretending to be someone else so you can sneak into the room where she's holding a conversation.

You say "I'm too nice." That's how people talk shortly before they snap and attack or even kill someone. People who tell themselves that they've been the nice guy for someone who doesn't deserve are working themselves up to seek "revenge".

You say "And the last thing I would ever want to do is harm her." Don't you know that that's a classic line of stalkers, rapists and murderers? And the scariest part is, many of them actually believe it!

That's how people go on to commit horrible crimes, absolutely convinced that they can and must win back their loves in the face of everyone else's misunderstanding***. Do you want to be like them?

This is likely your last chance to turn back. Right now, all you've done is upset someone. Anything further on your part could very easily push her to call the police, which means you likely get arrested, lose friends, lose thousands of dollars in legal fees in a criminal case, maybe even lose your job, and quite possibly lose more hundreds or thousands of dollars in fines, probation fees and the like...or even lose your freedom for days, weeks, months maybe even a year or more.

And if any of this happens, good luck getting and keeping a good job, friend or relationship. Your reputation will be destroyed, and rightly so.

As I mentioned in a previous post, that's not the worst-case scenario.

There's still a way out of this for you, right now. You say "I really don't want to stalk her." Then don't. All you have to do is stop contacting her. That means no more emails, messages, letters, no phone calls, no nothing. Not even through a third party. And stop trying to access any pages or profiles she's blocked you from.

Then you will have, as you put it, "done a commendable job leaving her alone."

(It would also do you good to stop reading about her altogether.)

There's a good lesson here for you about when to quit with another person. Take it and use it to improve the rest of your life.

[*] I'll be glad to give the citation upon request.

[**] Appropriately enough, he's now a Marketing professor at NYU's business school, focusing on Judgment and Decision Making.

[***] You said that "most people don't understand me." A very good sign that your emotions are taking you on a one-way path to destruction is when you assume that everyone else has the wrong idea about you. That's another rationalization used by criminals, in fact.

That was a very powerful and compelling piece of writing, but the aftermath isn't quite as gloomy as the above quote suggests.

I was in a similar situation about five years ago and got arrested as a result. No formal charges were brought; I just had to spend the day in the nick and they let me off with a caution. I can't say that it's made much difference to my career prospects; I was just as unemployable then as I am now.

My advice to the OP is this: if a girl wants you, she'll come to you without your having to make any effort; if she doesn't want you, no amount of effort on your part will make any difference. I have a girlfriend now and she just turned up on my doorstep and asked if I wanted to go round her place for a cup of tea.

Hello EnglishInvader,

First off, I'm glad things worked out better for you than they otherwise might have. Not to mention I'm glad you've gotten into a relationship - and much more easily than for guys generally. Most often, men are expected to do the pursuing.

You're definitely right that people need to know when to quit, especially when pursuing a person.

Be careful before generalizing your experience to others. For one thing, TheWeirdPig, like many if not a majority of WP users, is in the U.S., and here we have much more stringent standards about harassment and stalking. Institutions tend to take a "zero tolerance" attitude, much more than, say, 20 years ago. Letting someone off with a warning may be policy in the U.K. where you are; rest assured it is not the same way in the U.S.

Also keep in mind that, as you said, you had little to lose anyway in terms of employment. That might not be true for TheWeirdPig or other people reading this. (In fact, if Aspies tend to specialize in technical fields, at least in the U.S. many such roles require security clearances...and that means your past conduct is very carefully examined for evidence of bad judgment or failure to abide by the rules. Even without that, U.S. employers tend to be reluctant to take on someone who could get them sued for harassment or worse.)

Last but not least, keep in mind the difference between, say, jumping off a tall building without a parachute and walking alone through a wild animal safari. Behavior like we've been discussing above is more like the latter than the former. The former you never survive. The latter you might, if lucky, survive without life-altering consequences - but I wouldn't recommend it. And you never know when your luck will run out...until it's too late.

Just stay the hell away from her - she sounds like she has convoluted issues anyway.

You're doing yourself no favours by trying to contact her again. She wants nothing to do with you, and you need to respect that.

This ought to put him off, even if nothing else does:

I've removed myself from this forum and issue for a day, in hope to clear my head a bit.

Many of you are correct when you say I have a hard time getting over women. Often times it takes years. It has often times been miserable. Because of this, I have issues with trust, and I don't meet new women.

I also have issues with seeking help for these issues. Most people are much less than empathetic when I say I'm crying about a relationship that ended over a year ago. Most people say "aren't you over that already." I know it's over a year, still I am hurting very much.

Because I have difficulties in relationships, I don't trust. For some reason, I started trusting her. Then it was over and I was very hurt.

She is a very, very special person. If you all knew her, you might understand why it is so difficult to let go. She is a real sweetheart.

I know everyone is concerned about me, and in some ways even afraid of what I might do.

No, I do not want to be like them. But I do want to point out to you that these people indeed do authentically FEEL misunderstood. Because they feel so misunderstood, they let it fester, they don't say a thing, and wait until things are unbearable. That's why I'm posting here. I want people to hear my side of the story before it festers too far.

I don't believe if it really is a matter of if I am right or wrong. I'm just looking at things from a different perspective. Remember, Galileo saw the world differently. Of course, no one needs to remind me of the kind of trouble Galileo got himself into. So believe me, I am heeding all of your warnings very seriously.

And just to let all of you know, even if you disagree with most of my ideas, I do appreciate the responses. It is nice to know people care.

I have been in similar situations of not being able to get over someone. Even if the "someone" was just a friend, or a teacher. It hasn't always been a romantic interest. It is like the person gets stuck in your head in an OCD or aspie-obsession manner. Sometimes it is mixed with love, sometimes not. I don't want to use the word torture lightly but it definitely feels like a form of mental torture. I wish I had an answer for you but I've never found one. Sometimes the fixation/ obsession is unbearable even if the person wants to be in my life! I don't understand it and I hate these feelings.

OP, it's obvious that you still love this girl. You also felt something different for her than other girls you've had relationships with, because you chose to trust her. I don't think you made a bad choice: she obviously tried to be kind to you when she ended the relationship, and it seems like she provided you a lot of leeway before she finally had to cut you off.

I think everyone here has given really sound advice, but I'd like to add a slightly different perspective: real love is reciprocal. It's a shared feeling, hon. Real love - the kind that lasts a lifetime - has to be nurtured to grow, and it can only be natured by both partners. I think you need to be open to the possibility that this girl and your relationship with her represents issues you need to work on, rather than a "once in a lifetime" chance at love.

Sometimes we become very connected to people who actually aren't capable of truly loving us, precisely because they're not capable of truly loving us. If we're raised in a dysfunctional family, if we're abused, if there's an alcoholic/drug addicted parent, etc., we can experience a profound connection with a caregiver that's not really rooted in real love either. When we experience that type of emotional confusion at critical points in our psychological and emotional development, we may tend to seek out significant others who recreate that feeling in us. The feeling can be strong, and familiar and easily mistaken for love. That might be something to explore with your therapist?

I'm sorry, I know you're in pain. But I think you've got to work out your feelings so you can heal and prepare yourself to meet another young lady. Good luck.