What I hate the most.

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Anger comes later, never in front of them. I don't want girl - Friends. I want a Girlfriend. Otherwise I wouldn't be talking to women in the first place. The only time I get angry with them is if, after I completely cut off contact with them, they then try to get back in touch with me becuase they want to have a chat about how much their life sucks.

I don't want to hear it. They can keep it to themselves or go piss and moan to their girl-friends.

I'm sick of it happening to me every time I find a woman who is actually interesting. Thats some kind of crap. I'm actually making an effort, be it a faulting and stumbling effort, my standards aren't even that high anymore.. Yet every time.. this happens.. again and again.

It's not some kind of desperate thing either. I simply feel that you should get to know some one first before asking them out. Then by the time I'm in a position to ask them out, it's to late. Or I find out that I've been laboring under false pretenses the entire time and she's got a freaking boyfriend she failed to advertise.

I shower daily, change clothes, keep my hair neat, I'm neither needy or passive aggressive in communication with them. But it seems the minute they realize we have something in common, then I'm no longer acceptable dating material. And then they get offended when I don't just want to be friends.. when I never made any statement to the opposite of that at any time. I wouldn't be listening to them talk if I didn't want to get in their pants. I don't believe that men and women can be "Friends". There is an underlying biological imperative at work that supersedes those ideals.

Last edited by rabbittss on 23 Jan 2012, 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

i've decided "friend zone" is frankly a false concept.

be someone's friend. if romance comes out of it, great. if romance doesn't come out of it, great. either way, you have a friend... and a real friend is worth a whole lot. if you are being friends with someone in the hopes of something more and are unwilling to remain friends when rejected, then you weren't really a true friend to begin with. it's frankly deceptve to get close to someone as a "friend" just so that dating can result.

i've been rejected before, lots of times (i tend to be an aggressor and go after who i want). i can't imagine getting angry at someone just because they didn't want me. sometimes people are just not that into me. it's not their fault and i wouldn't drop them as a friend.

if a person is rejected dozens of times without ever having any success, then i'd suggest that they look at other ways of meeting people, or look at what they may be doing to come across in a way that people seem to be finding universally unattractive. i would also suggest asking friends and family for blunt honest advice, but it takes a strong disposition to take heed when someone exposes a possible flaw.

EDIT: i just saw your post, above. if you are not interested in being friends with the women, then don't waste their time pretending. it's underhanded and doomed to fail at getting you anywhere.

If my choice is to be without a friend, or to be so needy I keep them around and listen to their problems just to be near them... I don't want to be friends with them. And I certainly won't continue to be friends with them after being told I have no chance or that I'm any variation of "Sweet" or 'Cute'.

Also. Women. If you have a boyfriend.. change your freaking Facebook status to reflect that so I'll know not to bother wasting my time and meager resources.

well, i think it's clear where your problems are stemming from. you're being deceitful and have hidden motives, and evidently don't even care about the well-being of the females you are making "friends" with. keeping that in mind, i am surprised they are being so nice to you when they reject you.

I'm neither deceitful, nor do I have "Hidden" motives. My motives are crystal clear. I wouldn't be talking to them if I didn't want to date them. I don't talk to women I don't find physically interesting regardless of how mentally interesting they may be.

They just conveniently wait to tell me they aren't single until after I've listened to them for 3 or 4 weeks and gotten really interested in them all the while they continually ignore my efforts to ask them out.

What I'm trying to put across here is, even if both me and her like the same painting, I wouldn't talk to her about that painting other than to get to know her well enough to ask her out. I don't actually want to discuss it with her, I'm simply using it as a springboard. But it seems that, being interested in the same things, while on the surface would seem to be a good platform, actually tends to be the opposite.

I have no problems attracting women, what I have a problem with is all the ones I attract I have no interest in. But I certainly don't string them along for weeks before telling them that. I simply don't respond to them in a meaningful way when they talk to me. It gets my point across razor sharpely. I'm. Not. interested. That being said, I've talked to plenty of girls who I consider to be physically interesting, but upon finding out they are dumber than a sack of hammers, also have no interest in them and I tell them so. They then usually get offended, but at least it's a mutual feeling of dislike. Oh, there we go, we finally have something in common.

it's only crystal clear if you tell them right at the outset that you want to date them, but you said you are "friends" with them first. that's deceptive because they would think you are interested in them as people (when clearly you are not). if you are not asking someone out and calling it a date, then you can't blame them for thinking that you might be interested in them as friends.

perhaps if you start to approach women as fellow human beings who are worth knowing for reasons other than dating, you will find that you have more success with them. it sounds like you have a fundamental disrespect for women and are disinterested in them except for how they can fulfill your requirements.

most men are capable of being friends with women with no other motives involved, so these women you were making moves on would have no reason to assume you would be different.

Maybe they're being nice when rejecting him because they know themselves to some extent they've lead him up the wrong path perhaps? Quite often it's completely unintentional but if they've failed to mention that they're already spoken for after he's known them for weeks (which the OP has complained about here although asking them if they're already seeing anyone would help solve this) I think he's got a valid point.

You're basically saying he's wrong whatever he does. If he tries to form a friendship first he's being 'deceitful' if he goes in all guns blazing asking them out straight away that's wrong as well because he hasn't taken the time to get to know them. The same double standards which to an extent I already pointed to in my previous post in this thread.

I don't entirely agree with the OP's approach/method and there is certainly room for improvement (only pursuing those who he finds attractive and likes for their personality being a good start) but I can see why he's clearly getting frustrated when women claim to want to be friends first, only to have his efforts always turn out to be a complete waste of time.

oh no, there is definitely a right way to go about it. be a legitimate friend with females, and also ask women out. he can either ask them out right away or after feelings grow from the friendship. this is different frm what he is doing now because in his situation he has no intention of being an actual friend to these women.

i don't know why they would mention they are spoken for unless he asks them on a date (and says it is a date). there is no reason to tell him unless he asks or unless he makes an actual romantic overture.

it's quite possible the women are lying about having a boyfriend, as well. since they don't have a boyfriend in their FB information, and since they didn't mention it for a few weeks, that would be a logical conclusion. if that's the case, the OP needs to make major changes to become attractive to the women he is interested in.

Why does he need to make major changes if the women he's pursuing are failing to mention that they already have boyfriends? It's not his fault that they aren't being truthful, you can't blame him for that even though his current approach does leave a lot to be desired.

You are obviously angry and you are projecting. Why would I approach them as anything other than Human beings?! They simply are human beings who have different physiology. But I wouldn't be talking to them if it weren't for that physiology. I'm not interested in forming some sort of long term platonic relationship so I can all the annoying parts of having a girlfriend but none of the benefits.

It's a simple process.

1. You see some one you find attractive or interesting looking. Say she has a t-shirt on from a band you like.
2. you go talk to her, exchange information.
3. talk to her online. find out more about her. ask her out.
4. get friend zoned because she now has a male she feels comfortable complaing about other men around.

Are you seriously having trouble understanding this?

Most women, like most men, are generally nice, or at the very least, polite people. As others have pointed out, you may just not have approached a woman who is attracted to you from the start yet. It generally goes one of four ways.

1. She is attracted to you from the start and stays around to determine how your personality is and how the "chemistry" between the two of you is.

2. She's not physically attracted to you but is attracted to some element of your personality and sticks around to see if there is chemistry.

3. She's not physically attracted to you or your personality but thinks you would be a good friend. This might grow into something beyond friendship but that's rare.

4. She doesn't want anything to do with you.



Your partner should be your best friend. There's nothing wrong with wanting those qualities in a relationship. In fact, most relationships should have those qualities. But there is a difference between being a friend and being a friend in the context of a romantic relationship. The friendship in the latter case usually is a subset of the relationship and grows within it.

No, I'm having trouble understanding why you think this approach would EVER work. As far as I'm concerned, if this is your only approach to dating, you are undateable. For all the reasons everyone's listed above, *including the women posters*.

And by the way, what do you think women talk about with their women friends? That's right, men (in part). That's why she talks about other men with you, she's treating you LIKE A FRIEND.

noooooo, not angry. not projecting at all. if you approached women as human beings you would care about them as friends, but you don't; you only care about them for the romantic results you are trying to obtain from them.

i've said it twice already, but it won't hurt to say it again: you are not making it clear to them that you are interested in them romantically. simply exchanging information doesn't automatically mean dating. men and women are often friends, and while it isn't an absolute requirement to be friends with the opposite sex, i would definitely recommend it.

if you really see supporting women as friends as annoying with no benefit, then you might want to consider that you are not ready to be in a relationship.

if he is rejected by 20 women (for example) who all somehow managed to "fail" to tell him about a boyfriend, do you really think the fault lies with them? they aren't going to tell him something that he never asks them. they have no responsibility to share parts of their personal lives that he doesn't even ask about.

I could see "supporting women as friends" as a one sided relationship. There have been plenty of people who only ever seem to want to talk about their own issues and completely disregard your own, giving off the feeling of being used. It would be selfish to do that to anyone. We only have the OP's side of the story, but anyone who wouldn't be frustrated with feeling that way probably doesn't even realize that they're treated as a doormat.

Okay, I'm done talking to you. You are obviously firmly in the camp of "no matter what the op does he is wrong" approach.