Found note - my wife has delusional thoughts about me

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"It sounds like she truly does not want you to try and maintain any relationship with her. Yes, it's very possible to have misunderstandings like this and worse because of the way you both view love, respect, and relationships. What would be the purpose of involving someone else; what would the other person actually be helping with? RE: Intervention, if you're thinking of trying to make her go back to get treated for what she's been diagnosed with in the past, she probably has reasons of her own that you don't understand for removing herself from those treatments."

Agree w/ the first. Still hard to believe the second. I want to speak to her sister for multiple reasons. First, I need someone IRL to talk to. Second, I'm hoping that somehow she would seek help. Third, a long shot it seems, that she would agree to go to this AS behavioral therapist with me to learn about AS and clear up the misunderstandings.

"You are currently changing because you are in a situation where you have accepted your diagnosis and are seeking knowledge to understand how you view the world. From your description, she rejected her diagnosis and chose to think she knows better how to deal with how she views the world. It sounds as if you are growing in two different directions and if that's the case, you can't force her to grow with you no matter how much you love what you two had. It's important to not let your memories of the past dissuade you from your growth. I know that is very disappointing."

I'm definitely not letting this affect my personal growth. Finding out about AS is the pivotal point in my life. It's like just knowing makes it 100% better. By reading, I get a glimpse at how NT's think and how much I miss by not being able to read emotions and respond appropriately to them. I can begin to translate a little. I can catch myself before I get too obsessive about some interest. Finding out about AS and my problems with wheat and dairy have made me feel better than I can ever remember. If my wife hadn't left, I'd be on top of the world.

I know this may sound quaint, but I married for life. I'm prepared, best I can be, for her to never return, but in my heart, she's my wife. It's not like I'm a fundamentalist Christian or something. It's just what I believe and I told myself that I would love her no matter what and I have. She may someday find someone else, an NT, that she doesn't misinterpret so wildly. She might get her problem, whatever it is, under control. But no one will ever do for her what I did. She's never appreciated it, sure, but I can feel good about it. She may go to her grave thinking that the man who loved her the most, who sacrificed the most for her and her family, is evil incarnate. But I commited to loving her for life and I will.

First, forcing her to be with you will make her a captive bride. It is far better to be with someone who wants you than to try to make someone want you.

Second, communication problems happen in every relationship, even NT/NT relationships. A lot of people, on the spectrum or not do not ever attempt to understand communication or other peoples thought processes.

Third, is your reason for wanting her sister to talk to her to "talk some sense into her"? Are you seeking out her sister specifically because you think her sister may be on your side and would be willing to talk your wife into being with you again? I deeply understand your need for your wife to know that the communication problems you've had in the past are 1/2 (that's one of two people) your fault for not understanding that you approach things differently and that you are making every effort to learn about AS to be able to explain "this is the way I used to be" however, due to extenuating circumstances of her possible mental stability, she may never be able to accept that you've changed through knowledge and understanding.



Rock on, man! Realize that with or without her you've started yourself down a path that doesn't allow for going back. Essentially, you are still on top of the world and there is nothing wrong with being alone up there. Understanding that is a very hard hurdle to jump.



It doesn't sound quaint at all. It sounds like you are a very romantic person who belived that you were giving your wife the best of you. She may not have been, nor may she ever be in a position to understand and more importantly, accept your love the way you need to give it. I understand life commitment. I understand what it means to love someone that deeply. It's very difficult to know when someone is sending signals that they honestly want to be left behind.

"First, forcing her to be with you will make her a captive bride. It is far better to be with someone who wants you than to try to make someone want you."



"Second, communication problems happen in every relationship, even NT/NT relationships. A lot of people, on the spectrum or not do not ever attempt to understand communication or other peoples thought processes."



"Third, is your reason for wanting her sister to talk to her to "talk some sense into her"?"

No. More like understand enough to try to get her to see the problem and seek help.

"Are you seeking out her sister specifically because you think her sister may be on your side and would be willing to talk your wife into being with you again? I deeply understand your need for your wife to know that the communication problems you've had in the past are 1/2 (that's one of two people) your fault for not understanding that you approach things differently and that you are making every effort to learn about AS to be able to explain "this is the way I used to be" however, due to extenuating circumstances of her possible mental stability, she may never be able to accept that you've changed through knowledge and understanding."

I'm sure that her sister would not "be on my side". And no, I'm not deluded into thinking that she can or would try to get us back together. My wife could only consider working on our marriage if she understands AS - understands me - understands her own issues and works on them, and reassesses her delusional view of things. Her sister isn't going to waive a wand and make all of that happen.

"Rock on, man! Realize that with or without her you've started yourself down a path that doesn't allow for going back. Essentially, you are still on top of the world and there is nothing wrong with being alone up there. Understanding that is a very hard hurdle to jump."

Already jumped it, but I miss my wife and I miss my family.

"It sounds like you are a very romantic person who belived that you were giving your wife the best of you."

Nobody, and I mean NOBODY has ever called me a romantic before - but you're right. In my mind an in my heart, I am, but I've never been able to express it. Now that I know the problem, I think that I can get better at it.

"She may not have been, nor may she ever be in a position to understand and more importantly, accept your love the way you need to give it."

I've read that Aspies tend to show love by doing concrete things that aren't romantic. Like I did by doing everything I could to get her kids back. Or just working real hard (or just hanging on to a job when sick) to pay the bills and provide for them. I know that isn't enough, but I guess we think that they should see that as expressions of love. Just another AS/NT disconnect I guess.

"I understand life commitment. I understand what it means to love someone that deeply. It's very difficult to know when someone is sending signals that they honestly want to be left behind."

It's probably easy for NT's, but for me, all I can sense, when I sense anything at all, is vague negativity. Our brains aren't wired to catch these signals. I'm sure she wants me to let her go; she's said so. But I know now that she fell out of love for me because of AS and how she interpreted my behavior. If she understood, she might not come back, but she might not hate me.

Ah, but you did express it. She didn't understand that your gestures were very loving. I don't think you have a problem in showing your romantic side, because of the AS, you may have had a problem explaining to her that these were infact romantic gestures. The only thing you have to get better at is pointing out to her the things you do to show love.



You were doing your best and by far better by her that a lot of men would do for a lot of women. Because of her lack of understanding that this is indeed your way of showing you'd move the heavens and mountains for her, it would take a lot of work on both parts for her to accept that these were loving gestures you made and for her to be able to explain that sometimes to her, romance = (insert random thing she likes).



It is more than enough and in fact, it is actually more than what any NT will probably ever be able to give her.



AS is something we are born with or not. It's been your world for all of your life. It's not something that you suddenly developed after you were married and neither are her emotional or chemical imbalance problems. She may have been hiding behind her own social mask when you two got together and has since decided she can't hide behind that mask anymore. We all like to put our best foot forward and to hide little things from each other so that the other person doesn't judge you immediately and run away quickly, as NT's seem to do. I certainly don't walk up to new people and shake their hand and say, "Hi, I'm Mikka. I'm socially awkward and I have an autistic brain. My clothes are itchy. I don't like the food you're serving, and you've been shaking my hand for too long so I'll be leaving now." ... Point being, she may not be capable of accepting your love and that's even with medication and traditional NT therapy. For many reasons, but one of them being that she may not be capable of thought as deep as you even if she's "fixed" by meds and conditioning.



That's really insightful actually. If you two get to the point where you can have a conversation (which means she has to actually listen with her heart, not just hear ears) I think it would help the both of you for you to be able to explain that you love her with all of your heart. Your actions are misinterpreted by her and to be able to explain why the things you do for her are your idea of what a man should to to provide for his family.

I think I understand now that your reason for wanting her to get on medication is so that her head is less clouded and there is a better chance that she will listen with her heart and ears to attempt understanding that you love her the best way an AS man can love an NT woman.

When I read back through the posts here on this thread and read that she had an affair, which she was forgiven for, that may have confused her to no end. She may have been trying to escape for that long and feeling that an affair would finally be the thing that would stop you from loving her. For what ever reason, and the posts you've made here about her including these today, she may feel she doesn't deserve such devotion and adoration in her life. Is it possible she's treated you poorly on purpose as a means of escape from the relationship?

I do understand now that you've accepted that she may never love you and you want to be able to explain to her the reasons why she shouldn't hate you.

You are very complex thinker, emotional, romantic, and she may never realize what she's lost out on by pushing you away. I hope that you two work it out. It would be nice to see a happy ending for the two of you! I just hope for your sake and her's that a happy ending is a realistic goal and not a fantasy.

On the one hand, if it's what you really want, I hope the two of you work it out. Especially if it's a psychological or mental/emotional health problem on her side that she can get treatment for.

On the other, I find it hard to read this thread without thinking she's a psychotic b*tch who doesn't deserve you. I do try hard to not judge people (believe it or not) but stubborn persistence in closed-mindedness and ungrounded assumptions tend to very much annoy me. She might be happier if you just left her to it.

Oops! I replied w/o responding to 2 points:

"First, forcing her to be with you will make her a captive bride. It is far better to be with someone who wants you than to try to make someone want you."

That's the last thing I want, but I'm pretty sure that she was trying to accuse me of keeping her captive before she left. She would blow up out of the blue and say things like, "I'm putting my paycheck in the checking account; you should be happy." Without any reason that I could see.

"Second, communication problems happen in every relationship, even NT/NT relationships. A lot of people, on the spectrum or not do not ever attempt to understand communication or other peoples thought processes."

Unlike some I've read about, I'm am Aspie that has been acutely aware of our communication gap and desperately wanted to work on it, but one of 3 things always happened. I'd freeze up - because I have AS - and because my wife is so volatile. Or I'd try but not make any progress because our AS and NT natures weren't known. Or I'd get so frustrated that my wife was so unhappy and blaming me for it, and her not appreciating what I was doing for her and how hard it was for me, and I'd raise my voice a little too much and protest her negative view of me.

"Ah, but you did express it. She didn't understand that your gestures were very loving. I don't think you have a problem in showing your romantic side, because of the AS, you may have had a problem explaining to her that these were infact romantic gestures. The only thing you have to get better at is pointing out to her the things you do to show love."

I honestly can't see that ever happening. Everything I did was apparently a given that I should do and not worthy of notice. She is so needy - emotionally that is - that it borders on a sort of selfishness. I've begun to wonder if she is really capable of unconditional love. She has said things about people, incl. her children and grandchildren that seem to imply that she is reluctant to give for fear that someday she won't receive.

"You were doing your best and by far better by her that a lot of men would do for a lot of women. Because of her lack of understanding that this is indeed your way of showing you'd move the heavens and mountains for her, it would take a lot of work on both parts for her to accept that these were loving gestures you made and for her to be able to explain that sometimes to her, romance = (insert random thing she likes)."

Thank you. You're the very first person, besides myself, who has ever appreciated what I've done. I'm crying like a baby. I can't see the screen or the keys. I've recovered, but I haven't cried like that since she left. You don't know what it means to me to hear that. If I had heard it from her just once, maybe things wouldn't have gotten so bad. I just felt so misunderstood, unappreciated, and and maligned. As for her explaining what she wanted - she did - different things at different times. She must have thought I was a jerk when I couldn't follow through. Hell, I beat myself up for not being able to give her what she needed. Now, I relaize that it is AS. I was uncomfortable displaying or even accepting displays of strong emotions. I would subconciously pull away from her when she approached to cuddle. I couldn't tell or show her how I felt and I was frustrated by it. Now that I know what it is, I think that I could really make progress. But the timing really sucks. I found out about AS after she left.



"It is more than enough and in fact, it is actually more than what any NT will probably ever be able to give her."

I've thought that myself and I believe it. Unfortunately, I think she would be happy with a shallow, self-centered, non-sacrificing good-time guy that would tell her sweet nothings that were otally insincere. That's how needy she is. In her note, she even says that she NEEDS the little things like this. She not only capitalized it, she underlined it 3 times. To her, those little things are 10 times more important than things like getting her kids back from an unhealthy environment or struggling through chronic illness to provide.


"It's not something that you suddenly developed after you were married and neither are her emotional or chemical imbalance problems."

Bingo! Right on both counts. My adaptation has actually improved through our marriage. I was not physically demonstrative and didn't whisper sweet nothings when we dated. And she had her issue(s) before we ever met. She was so volatile at times with people and I think now that the bad decision to not pursue custody when she divorced was a direct result of whatever it is.

"That's really insightful actually. If you two get to the point where you can have a conversation (which means she has to actually listen with her heart, not just hear ears) I think it would help the both of you for you to be able to explain that you love her with all of your heart. Your actions are misinterpreted by her and to be able to explain why the things you do for her are your idea of what a man should to to provide for his family."

I guess this is one of the things that I hoped would come out of the few weeks of no (well - little) contact. I thought that maybe things could settle enough that we might actually be able to discuss these things. I also wanted top give her time to adjust to the idea and to learn about AS. I'm pessimistic now, though. I don't think she's bothered much. To her, I think it's just "my problem" and all she can see is how it indirectly affected her for 12 years. I don't think that she can get beyond that to consider what effects I've experienced in 47 years of living it every day.

"I think I understand now that your reason for wanting her to get on medication is so that her head is less clouded and there is a better chance that she will listen with her heart and ears to attempt understanding that you love her the best way an AS man can love an NT woman."

Yes. But just as much, I want her to be truly happy, not just the elusion of it during a manic phase.

"When I read back through the posts here on this thread and read that she had an affair, which she was forgiven for, that may have confused her to no end. She may have been trying to escape for that long and feeling that an affair would finally be the thing that would stop you from loving her. For what ever reason, and the posts you've made here about her including these today, she may feel she doesn't deserve such devotion and adoration in her life. Is it possible she's treated you poorly on purpose as a means of escape from the relationship?"

I'm sure that the affair was because I was so out of it that I was a zombie just struggling to survive. She is so needy that she couldn't understand it even when I told her repeatedly. To this day, if I say anything about feeling poorly, she almost snaps. All she could do was feel the NEED. She projected every negative emotion on me and justified the affair because she wasn't getting it.

"I hope that you two work it out. It would be nice to see a happy ending for the two of you! I just hope for your sake and her's that a happy ending is a realistic goal and not a fantasy."

I keep thinking more and more that it is a fantasy. As much as I love her, I know her well enough to know that she has a pattern of assigning negatives to a person, building and building until she has created a grossly distorted "reality" for herself. For whatever reason, being pissed off is something that she can't seem to do without. If she doesn't have something to be pissed about, she'll dredge up something 10 years old to be pissed about. Or at times, just hallucinate them.

One thing to keep in mind is that private journals (mine at least) often contains subject matter that would scare other people off and often is written in times of extreme emotion. The reason I hide my private journals is that if someone were to read them they would think I'm really messed up because they pretty much only contain the messy stuff. So perhaps she was just venting and perhaps the process of writing in the journal helped her to gain some perspective. The one thing I know about women is that their emotions are always changing.

Of course all the other circumstances (her having an affair and not wanting to contact you) point to there being serious problems but maybe it's not as serious as the journals make it out to be.

I was reading along, minding my own busines when I saw this:

"I'm sure you're right. I remember when I discovered her affair 8 years ago. She couldn't figure out why I was upset (or so she said). She said she assumed I knew about it and since I hadn't said anything, it must have been OK w/ me. Unbelievable."

Ok, here is the truth everyone else is walking around on eggshells and not telling you:

Your marriage is over. End of story.

It was over 8 years ago you just didn't know. Furthermore she's bipolar: she's too dangerous to love. Don't get me wrong I'm sure plenty of bipolar people have the best for others at heart: but that doesn't matter when the sickness takes over. Yeah they can't help it and it sucks because they often wreck the things that matter most to them. So stay the hell away.

You're welcome. <smiles>

Its definately possible to get this bad..

My girlfriend (ex now) accused me of sleeping with others, of lieing, of hating her, of using her, of not being strong enough.

This might sound ridiculous, but this all came about, because I offered a different opinion to the one she was currently holding (she believes she is cursed).

I'm definately not trying to b***h, I'm just saying the disconnection got so great that I was desperately trying to hold it together, and she mistrusted me so much that every conversation became a test to prove my worth.

She even ended up sleeping with another, and claimed it was because she was sure I was doing it with others.

In other words, paranoia is a result of her own insecurities, which most likely grew out of her guilt.

Sorry if I blabbed bout myself, just trying to offer a perspective.

I've continually forced us to work, I've continually picked it up and assured her of my loyalty, my undieing belief in her, and my love. Its either two things, she wants to end it but can't work out a way to do so. Or she despises herself for something subconcious from the past, and will therefore find it impossible to believe me unless I can express the way she does (which is impossible)

I've been learning a lot from reading the David Deida book "The way of the superior man" and doing some Deida-inspired men's groups.

The Deida perspective is that women are constantly testing your love for them by being emotional, blaming you, pushing your buttons. And there is nothing you can do to change her except show her that you are strong enough to love her in spite of it.

Saying such a thing out of the context of the book and out of the context of his teachings probably sounds just masochistic. But in fact it is all about creatively loving her throughout all her craziness. The more annoying she becomes the more the man needs to love her and show that he isn't going to leave her for being herself.

Maybe confronting her about the journals is not going to get results... that might just piss her off that you are reading her private stuff. Exploring creative ways to show she is loved sounds like the way.

Another thing that David Deida says is that the man often makes the mistake of thinking that if he could only get his woman to understand something then she wouldn't be so emotional and on his case. In fact the woman is just being a woman by being wild and unpredictable, and you cannot change that... it's best to learn how to make her feel loved through all that.

How exactly to make her feel loved is not an easy process. It's about learning what makes her feel loved, what makes her feel taken care of. As I said it's a creative process, there's no formula. It's definitely not as easy as saying "I love you", but if that isn't something you normally say that might be a start. I've heard experts say you should say "I love you" three times in a row to make her really hear it. That's of course just a formula and it's up to you to find the other creative ways to love her.

I should note that I'm mostly parroting what I have heard and haven't had a chance to put this stuff into action myself, so take it for what it is worth.

It does sound like the root of this relationship problem is that she doesn't trust that you love her. It sounds like she may be incapable of that, but if you want to try and save the relationship your task is to show her how much you love her, not how wrong she is or how illogical she is being. Easier said than done of course.

I remember the first gift I gave to my first real girlfriend was a table fan! I thought it was just perfect because it would solve her complaints of being too hot in the summertime Needless to say she didn't appreciate it as much as the diamond earrings I bought her later after I realized that gifts should be "romantic" rather than useful

Hi... I'm really sorry things are going so badly for you at the moment. I think, although communication problems happen in every relationship, the things your wife wrote sound like typical AS/NT misunderstandings. I get the impression you've just found out about AS-how long had you been married before you found out?

We'd been together 5 years when I realised he has AS. Up until then I had the same thoughts about his intentions that you wife had. Our biggest breakthrough was when I said to him 'you've never done things to intentionally hurt me, you don't have any idea why I get upset about things, and you really don't have a malicious bone in your body!'
He cried, I cried. We started again from there. But we still struggle at times.

It takes a lot of work to get over the AS/NT differences, and the problems from miscommunication which can build up over years. Lots of reading about AS, and talking, has to be done. Things have to be explained in minute detail to avoid misunderstanding. Women, especially NT ones, do a lot of communicating in a non-verbal way, and even NT men have trouble interpreting it. We're very odd creatures! But you must remember that Aspies can be very difficult to deal with. It is well known that Aspies struggle to see another person's point of view. This is extremely frustrating for an NT! My partner weighs things up very carefully and forms an opinion based on logic, so if I have a different opinion I must be wrong. We are now at the stage that we can find a compromise, but it's taken a long time to get here.
The reason we've been successful is that we are BOTH totally dedicated to making this relationship work.

If you can get your wife to talk to you, and read up on AS, you may have a chance. But it takes a certain kind of person to be able to deal with a partner with AS. Your wife would have to understand that she cannot take everything personally, and she has to be literal with you and state her own intentions clearly. If she feels hurt by something you say or do, it's her own responsibility to ask you exactly what you mean by what you said. She would have to tell you what SHE thinks you meant, and how she feels about it, then you have to make the effort to explain what you actually meant. She would have to understand that you have no frame of reference for her feelings, and she has none for yours.

I would also suggest that you go to

http://login.prospero.com/dir-login/ind ... ndpartners

NOTE: This is not 'That' forum, before anyone jumps on me! This one, hosted by Gerry who is an Aspie, is about AS/NT partners learning to communicate & understand each other. It's been very helpful for me.

You must understand, AS/NT relationships are very hard work. For both partners. The commitment has to be equal or it will never work. If your wife, knowing what is involved, does not wish to put in the effort , then there's nothing you can do but let her go.

I really hope it works out for you... good luck!

I can relate to that except the strong part...same here, except in reverse I'm female...I just wasn't sensitive enough.

I forgave 3 affairs, also blamed myself because of the way I am which I guess seems very cold at times...I fought like he$$ to make it work...I too believed in you get married, you get married forever....I don't think anyone doesn't feel that way when they get married...you want things to work, and you believe they will or you don't usually get married.

I swallowed alot of hurt and I lost part of myself I think in the process...I was forever trying to make him understand. It wasn't a relationship as much as it was a day to day process of me trying to please and being someone else because I wasn't like him and he couldn't understand (or didn't want to).

I hope it works out for you and I wish you the best if that's what you really want. I hope your journey is alot easier than mine was.

Mine is happy and living with affair #4 now. I'm done...and finding my own happiness alone...and I can't say I miss the fighting and the mis-understandings one bit anymore...the only person I have to explain myself to now... is me.

Best wishes.

Since my wife returned the note unopened, I left a short voicemail on her cell saying that I was shocked about the note and was not angry so much as upset and shocked. I asked again if she was going to go to the therapist with me in a few weeks like she had promised.

I got an e-mail last night. She refuses to go now. I'm not sure (AS you know), but I get the feeling that even the "just friends" thing she claimed to want is a fiction.

She says she'll file after the New Year. I have a very good practical reason why I'd like her not to, but don't feel like or have the time to go into it right now. I guess this is where I find out if she's just needy or selfish, frustrated or cruel. I don't know if I'll get an answer soon, or if she'll purposely stall like she did about the therapist. There's a certain cruelty in that as well.

I want to thank all of you. I'm starting to see that maybe she isn't someone that could ever be good for me. Maybe not for anybody. But I still have to deal with doing a 180 in my mind and heart. I have to go from spending years with my goals and thoughts being about her and the family to not having those goals and thoughts at all. I do want to have goals for myself. I just don't know what they should be.