Using girlfriends as doormats

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In that case, I doubt that the guy would have anything but friendship considering all he does is unload his negativity onto her.
I wouldn't say that she was a doormat for letting him talk about himself in a negative sense to her though.

Remember, the other way in which I am "unusual" is that I want to actually DATE the girls I complain to.

Now, you said FRIENDS are meant to listen to problems. Now, if I try to DATE someone and AT THE SAME TIME do what FRIENDS do, will it turn a date into a friend?

Like you know there is a Russian story (I don't know if there is English counterpart to it) when the brother was really thirsty and wanted to drink of the water animals drink, and his sister was telling him "don't drink, or else you will become such and such animal". At first he resisted, but then he finally drank and turned into that animal. Is it the same sort of thing with dating? In other words, if I talk about my own problems to a girl does it have the same effect as my listening to her problems -- and in both cases I turn a date into a friend because I do what friends do (just like that guy turned into an animal because he drank what animals drink)?

I think I get what you're trying to say, I just can't grasp the logic behind it.

From what you're saying you make out that if you were dating, you wouldn't unload your problems onto her as it's what friends do, and fear it'd somehow revoke your dating status back to being friends ??

Sorry but this makes absolutely no sense, in that a relationship is basically an upgraded friendship.

Sort of like becoming a VIP in a night club.
You're still allowed to do all the exact same things you did when you were not a VIP, but as a VIP you get added benefits.

Well the idea that Relationship=Friends+Extra is what I used to think back in 2004. But then in 2005 I learned the hard way that this is not the case: Here is the evidence:

1. David DeAngelo writes that getting emotionally close to a girl would prevent you from dating her since being emotionally close is what friends do

2. A girl named Katie rejected me because I can't be happy with someone unless I am happy with myself. BUT she said that she will be my friend because helping me to be happy is "what friends are for". Then half a year later when I was upset about rejection she told me "relatioships come and go friends are meant to stay" and also "if friendship will turn into something it will be more than any relationship you or I have had". Thus she was implying that friendship is "more" than a relationship in some ways.

3. The fact that girls do the unloading to their friends but not to their boyfriends

4. There was a girl named Ondrea who rejected me because she "was getting friendship vibes from me" (her words). When I asked her why, she said "friends talk for hours, couples do not" and she said that I came across as friend because I was writing too much and too often

Anything anyone like this says is utter BS, of course you have to get emotionally close that's what love is it's an emotion.




No one wants to be with someone who's depressed, they tend to drain the life from people

If you don't mind me asking how old were you in 2004/05 ?? Because these sound like typical high school excuses for breaking up/letting someone down gently. With number 4 implying you were being to clingy.



I saved the best until last, my past Gf's used to tell me everything even the grisly stuff that a man just doesn't need to know, if they were unhappy with me they'd let me know and they'd expect the same from me.
I can only go on what I know, and this is how it's been for the past 8 or so years.

To say you were rejected isn't doing yourself any favours either, you just have to accept not all relationships work and some people just aren't interested.

There is some serious gore involved with being a woman, sometimes I like to share a war story with a loved one.

"During the warrr....."

Then how come she was willing to be my FRIEND just not a girlfriend? Wouldn't friendship with someone depressed also drain you? So the fact that she was willing to be a friend indicates that I was NOT draining her but rather I was "playing friends role" by complaining so she wanted to call me a friend, accordingly. I mean, she wasn't trying to let me down easy -- after all while I was the one not writing her for half a year, she kept trying to get my attention thus proving she was serious about wanting to be my friend. Now, the kind of attention she was trying to get involved complaining about HER potential relationship. This brings us to the topic of this post. Complaining is what friends do. Thats why when *I* complained, it turned me INTO a friend and ONCE I was a friend SHE started to complain thus fulfilling the role of friendship (and, of course, as a friend, she was there for me as well). On the other hand, if we were a couple then she would have neither let me complan nor would she have complained herself.



I was 25 and she was probably around 23 or 24. Here is the correspondence with her that I was referring to: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt9507.html

The sequence of events was as follows: FIRST I was complaining about stuff WITHOUT arguing with her and she LJBF-ed me same day because "you can't be happy with someone unless you happy with yourself". I accepted LJBF without complaints (I was depressed about Anne thats why I simply didn't care about Katie at the time). THEN for half a year I were not talking to her but she was trying to get my attention from time to time to discuss HER potential bf. Then HALF A YEAR LATER we had the exchange described in the above post.

I hate the concept of using girlfriends as doormats. I've seen too many sad stories on talk shows and in real life to ever go there. Plus, there is a history of mental abuse and control in my life and I don't want any repeats.

Girlfriends are also human beings and they should be loved unconditionally. I just don't believe that a relationship should be one-sided or all about sex. Relationships, I believe, should be long-lasting.

Phew here goes...

I'm going to just put what I get from reading your conversation - And using it you can answer your questions

From the sounds of it Katie (who will be "K") has just come out of a relationship and shes still quite hung up on Mr.X and still thinks you're with Ms.X so at this point you're friends, Then she say's she's been quite busy IRL.

Then you reply to K, expressing how your life sucks because Ms.X wasn't interested, after your date.You enquire about Mr.X then you instantly drop the want to go out bombshell. She's made out she's still hung up on Mr.X - nothing good can come from asking this.

She replies obviously confused by the fact you've asked her and goes on to validate she's still hung up on Mr.X.

You reply to K obviously worried about what comes across to the reader as" I'm sorry I told you I wanted to be friends, I was looking for sympathy because of Anne ("A")." Then you send a second email which makes you out to the reader, to seem desperate.

She replies with what seems angrily typed (as her punctuation has gone down hill), that basically she's really confused,and she just needs someone to be there to help her get her head together not a BF. Which is asking for help not rejecting you.

You go on to reply, obviously missing her cry of help into a 4 email long selfish rage because you feel she's rejected you. Which she hasn't and to be honest you're lucky she's still talking to you at this point after " I'm sorry I told you I wanted to be friends, I was looking for sympathy because of Anne ("A").

God knows how but you get a reply, where she clearly states she's REALLY confused now, and puts really nicely your 4 page ragemail has sealed the deal on the friends for life box. Fair play to the lass, she goes on to tell you how else you went wrong and this is a biggy.

NEVER EVER TELL A GIRL, ANOTHER GIRL IS OVERWEIGHT - Especially if you're meant to be in a relationship with said overweight person.

This gives the impression that you're always constantly judging, and constantly judging someone you're going out with too -

You then reply using "The AS bomb" which in this case I feel is an okay time to use, taking into consideration your annotations throughout the conversation. But this is soon drowned out by the fact you start blaming her for saying your GF was fat

She then replies with the conclusion that you are shallow, selfish and you get what you give. She gave you ample time to redeem yourself as a friend and even a chance to be more. She then goes on to blame herself for everything so you don't feel bad and it ends.

At the end of the day :
- Don't try to go into a relationship when you're still hung up on someone this is no other emotion other then lust to try fill the void of your ex.

- Stop with the "Friendzone" fallacy it's not real.
- NEVER EVER TELL A GIRL, ANOTHER GIRL IS OVERWEIGHT - Especially if you're meant to be in a relationship with said overweight person

Hope that helps explain a little sorry if any of it sounds mean it's not meant to be

The Dog hath spoken. Heed his advice.
Accept you have made mistakes, and learn from them. It all leads to better chances in the future.

No I think the thing with LJBF is that the friendship is a downgraded relationship in which the Girl gets things she wants, emotional support, frequent ego boosts, and perhaps even financial support, while not having to do anything except occasionally flirt with the unsuspecting schlub(s) she is stringing along by not explicitly stating there is no hope for a relationship.

This is TOTALLY doable in reverse also. I've seen plenty of women who give up everything they have/want in order to keep or hope to attain a specific guy they want.. who basically treats them like crap and never has any intention of doing anything except getting the goodies and running.

If you want a REALLY good example of this watch "Almost Famous" it's perhaps the best example on film of the "friendzone" in action. The cool thing is it shows both aspects of it. The girl taking advantage of the less experienced guy to get emotional support, while at the same time being taken advantage of by the more experienced older guy.

You can't downgrade something you didn't have in the first place and if YOU feel a girls taking YOU for a ride, then YOU only have YOUrself to blame if YOU stick around.

So you think when you meet a woman she should clearly state if shes interested in you or not straight off the bat, no time to get to know you or anything ??

And yup it works both ways they only have themselves to blame for sticking around too.

And i'm glad it's in a fictional film, because the "friendzone" is a fictional thing.
Most probably penned up by a single guy who couldn't bare the idea that not every girl wanted to sleep with him.

It's not a fictional thing, and it's not a fictional film. It's an Autobiographical film with the serial numbers filed off.. So it proves you have no idea what you are talking about.

Can we please for the love of everything not have another "friendzone" conversation. It's a zombie of a concept I keep killing and it keeps coming back.