Wife has bad day, I don't know how to respond

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I've quite recently ended a four-and-a-half month relationship, the best I've had in a long time, with the best friend I've had in a long time. I felt closer to her than I'd ever felt to anyone. A lot of this could be exageration, given how I'm feeling right now, but there are so many concrete things that she did to show that she cared, so many signs I got that my needs mattered, that I don't think that it is. We went through a kind of arc in the relationship.

Early on, she told me some Important Things. I was so proud to have earned her trust, to have been allowed to hear these Things, but I managed to handle it really bad. Some of the Things were upsetting as well as Important. Like OP and others, I responded by trying to relate (refocussing the conversation onto myself, or else trivialising the matter: a deeply troubling story involved cooking, so I related to the cooking). Once, she asked me a question about the relationship which was also troubling to her. When I discovered that she was afraid of something which wasn't the case, I was so relieved and happy that I laughed. She felt offended by that.

As the relationship progressed, she, like OP's spouse, eventually decided not to tell me about the difficult things. I'd lost the trust that I was so overjoyed to gain. And the new arrangement took a toll on our relationship. We spent more and more time accommodating my needs. I think I became quite complacent about it because, after all, who wouldn't want to have someone always ready to help them and support them and love them? So part of it was genuinely not needing to hear about her troubles if she didn't bring them up, but a lot of it was the feeling of rejection. She had told me that we didn't need to discuss her problems because:
a. I'm socially isolated and mentally ill; I have more urgent needs.
b. She has a strong enough social network to receive support elsewhere.
c. I always treated her badly when she did discuss them.

I could hardly argue with that, as it allowed me the perfect cocktail of self-pity, guilt (for failure), and fear (of trying to help her open up to me again). So we went on our somewhat merry way. Actually, at times, I was ecstatic, and I think she was too. I gots my moments, y'know?

Recently she has come under some new, extremely difficult pressures. We hung out before I was supposed to go out of town. Because I was going to be away, we were hanging out as close to my leaving as I could manage. But it meant we were hanging out after I'd been at work. We had generally tried to schedule our time together well away from my work schedule, because work often reduces me to a semi-catatonic non-communicative state, where I just need to hide from stimulation for several hours. In retrospect, that was just one of the ways in which my needs came first. That evening, I knew something was wrong. We weren't connecting very well, and she had a look of concern. Her body language was restrained.

She later told me that I was showing all of the same signs. I didn't realise it at the time: I was going into my usual post-work routine of fiddling around with toys and things, making patterns and narratives, to help me settle my brain. I was trying to include her (i.e. not go on the computer), but, as she pointed out, three hours of minimal communication, eye contact, and touch (I think I gave her a hug hello and a few awkward hand squeezes) comes across as very cold and distant.

Step back. She had already told me about her problem earlier in the week. I was calling her up on my way to work; partly, I needed her voice to get me ready to face the day. But she had also asked me to communicate better when we were apart, as I had previously been neglecting her (it turns out; I hate the permanent feeling of being the last to know what I'm doing wrong). In my head, the situation was this:
1. Exchange hellos.
2. Quick pep talk to each other.
3. Hang up.
4. Now she knows that I'm thinking about her every day. I'm a good boyfriend.

But she dropped it. The Bad Situation. The Important Thing. In a panic (had a train to catch... and negotiate, mind occupied by work, not knowing how to respond) I ended the conversation very quickly.

Fast forward. I'm asking her what's wrong. She denies that anything is wrong. She's sick and tired of it. She's already told me, and I've forgotten. So I'm aware that something is very very wrong. So I ask her if I'd done something wrong. She says it doesn't matter. So I know I've f****d up big time. Finally she tells me. I'm relieved that I haven't done anything wrong. I'm silent a long time, trying to give her space to talk. She doesn't. The conversation moves on. Eventually, I say something trivial, something she would later say triggered a realisation for her. The next morning she told me that she was tired of how our problem-solving always ended up being a discussion of my needs, and how she could not rely on me for any emotional support. I thought of all the work I'd done to try and make her happy (call more often, tell her my mental states when my affect is unclear, remember that she gets tired from work and needs to be taken care of too, which, despite the main subject matter of this post, I sometimes did really well). None of it had solved this basic problem of her not being able to tell her about her troubles, which seems to be INCREDIBLY basic to really loving someone. In that moment I felt that it was never going to change, so I said that. She said that she thought I was creating problems to drive her away, and that I should own my feelings. That time together was the first time that I'd made her cry; things were getting worse, not better. I didn't want to, but I said we should end it. I was tired of hurting her, and not knowing how to stop.

But it's been a few days. I look back and I think that there's a possibility I could learn to express sympathy, if she could help me. There's a chance that I could learn to give her back at least some of what she has given me. I wrote her today to try and explain how my brain works, to show her examples of situations where it works well (ritualised, formalised, and regular expressions) and where it works badly (sudden, unexpected news; negotiating different contexts, such as needing to show coffee in the midst of a discussion of more mundane but still distracting matters). She responded that I had done it again: made the conversation about myself and my needs. Naturally, none of her heavy dilemmas have become any lighter, so I can definitely see her point, and see why my actions were problematic. But this clarity only occurs in retrospect. As it is, it seems that everything I've done in the relationship to try and improve this problem has only made it worse. Like OP's spouse, my girlfriend did not accept ASD as an explanation for my behaviour, and even became insulted by what she saw as my attempt to evade responsibility to her.

I want to write to her and tell her how I feel, that I still want her. I want to tell her that I'm not trying to get her support with my problems (in my mind they were case studies that we were both emotionally detached enough from to learn from), I'm trying to figure out how I can work around them to support her better. But again, everything I say seems to make it worse. A friend has told me that she needs time and space, but especially as I haven't yet told her that I'd like one more shot, I'm worried about time making it too late.

On a final note, there is an element of comedy to this thread. I.E. all of the folks saying, "You really should stop trying to give her even seemingly practical advice when she comes to you with an emotional problem. Also, have you tried to find a job?"

Oh dear, my fellow aspies. Oh deary me.

I think that boss of hers needs sorting out, by hook or by crook. If you live in one of these countries where hiring and firing on a whim is legal, I don't see any legal solution.

I also think that your wife needs sorting out. Sounds to me like she's taking you for granted and wielding more than her fair share of power. You're doing your best, but all she can do is remind you how inadequate that is. Why can't she see that when you tell your own anecdote, that's to show her that you've been in the same kind of hole yourself. Does she care whether you empathise with her or not? Why couldn't she find a WOMAN to pour her heart out to? Maybe my idea of marriage is more closed than that of some folks, but as far as I can see she's committed emotional infidelity......and I don't like the way she's insinuating that she's becoming sexually tempted. Her remark would seem designed to undermine your sense of security.

If not for the kids, I'd recommend that you really start making waves and get ready to quit over this if necessary.

I wouldn't ask her what she wants you to say to her, because if then you do say those things, it'll sound very insincere.

That advice you were given about telling her your story, was bad advice, unless what they meant was showing empathy, as in saying, "That's terrible". Talk as if it's fact, as in, "That IS disgusting behaviour from your boss. What right has he to treat you that way?", rather than, "He sounds disgusting." because saying he sounds disgusting appears that you're only judging from what she's said and not the whole picture. She doesn't want to hear it like that, she wants to hear that you agree 100% with her that she's in the right (even if you don't agree and need more evidence). She mostly wants to hear that you're on her side, and she wants you to show how upset you are too (with a degree of control, of course). Say things like, "If he was here, I'd give him a piece of my mind". Obviously though, if that isn't your style, then don't. It does help a lot, though.

Since she's feeling emotionally fragile, always side with her, at least until most of her upset is gone, and then try to reason with her. When reasoning, say things while still appearing on her side, like, "He had no right to treat you that way. Maybe he's just cranky because that deadline is coming soon". See, that sentence is still saying her boss was wrong for what he did, and yet trying to help her see his side too . Don't say, "Maybe he's just stressed out" on it's own, as there's nothing in that sentence to convince her you're on her side. It might even sound to her like you're standing up for him. She'll feel a bit paranoid because she's upset.

Don't say directly, "I'm on your side" because then it sounds like you're trying half-heartedly to convince her that you are. It's like hearing, "I love you. Honestly". Also, don't say things like, "I don't mean to be funny, but.../although what he did was wrong..." because then it sounds like you're lessening her argument, when you say one thing, and then try to turn it around with a "but" or "although". If you say, ""He had no right to treat you that way. Maybe he's just cranky because that deadline is coming soon", it shows no doubt that you're on her side, *and* is reasoning with her at the same time.

Tell her what a great person she is, and highlight all the efforts she's tried with him and how maturely she has dealt with it. One rule when appearing sincere, is to give a reason for everything you say. The same goes for compliments. E.g. "I'm proud of you. You've dealt with it so well. That's because you're intelligent, witty and considerate." A shortened version of that, "Well done for dealing with it the right way". Doesn't sound as good, does it? *Do* use compliments like that sparingly, though, so they sound more sincere.

Another rule is to try very hard not to repeat the same thing over and over again, like you said, "That's terrible". To her it appears you haven't bothered to think up of anything else, and it doesn't take much imagination (in her eyes - effort) to come up with something better, therefore she feels belittled. It sounds exactly like someone responding with, "OK". It says you're not upset enough (for her) to think up of more to say. I'm not saying at all that you can't be bothered, but that's how it appears, and it seems you do care enough for this woman, otherwise you wouldn't have made this topic.

To summarise - be more wordy, and on her side, and give good reasons why. Only end the topic when she does. Good luck with this..! !

When it really does feel like the other person doesn't care, you *will* end up testing the relationship by saying mean things like that in order to see if they do care. That's human nature, and really, it makes sense. You wouldn't want to be in a relationship where you genuinely felt the other person didn't care. I think if his wife knew he had posted this thread, then she would feel a lot better. I've provided advice here, because it really, really gets to me if I need to let off stream and a boyfriend doesn't have much to say. It's a horrible feeling when you're poured your heart out only to find the person you care about most of all, can't think of a thing to say to cheer you up.

And what's wrong with pouring your heart out to a man? Why should it be a woman? Also, if she really was going to cheat, she would be secretive about it. This woman sounds like she's in need of support. Having said that though, people do say mean things when they're angry. This does need to be sorted out, though, as with me at least, I've left guys for it. When you're in a relationship, you want to feel like it's the both of you against the world, not your partner and the world against you. For me personally, being able to talk *is* the foundation of a relationship. I can't speak for other women though.

So do you think she's applying a little indirect, negative persuasion that's justified because of the extreme loneliness of having nobody to vent to, perhaps hoping that he'll see it as a benign warning shot across the boughs, and redouble his efforts to give her what she craves? I know from my own experiences that strong deprivation feelings can bring out the worst in us, but I can't imagine myself trying anything so indirect, let alone making it work. Is this a girl thing?

What's wrong with pouring your heart out to a man, that depends on the spouse's feelings about it, which I hope the OP will tell us. Depends on the circumstances and the people so much. It can range from "no problem" to strong feelings of anxiety and betrayal.

I have to agree with this! I have been horribly tempted to say things like this to my fiance when he seems to not care after I have vented about something that upset me. Worse, he used to play devil's advocate when I needed him to just be there for me. He would start analyzing what the other person had done, and making excuses for them. So what about me? He just didn't know what to say to me, and it was horrible.


Again, I wholeheartedly agree. l

Yeah, but what he did was try, and fail, to help. What she did was try, and probably succeed, to make him feel insecure. I'm sure she had her reasons for doing it, that doesn't make it okay. It's a low blow, if my partner (granted, I don't have children with her) said that to me I'd have ended the relationship on the spot.

Big big difference between not knowing the right thing to say and choosing to say something hurtful.

Also, if the genders were reversed, if this were a housewife rather than a househusband, would you all be telling her she needs to get a job?

Your responses sound like the same responses I would have in those situations. I wouldn't be able to handle a situation like that and would end that relationship as soon as possible.

Last edited by Alfonso12345 on 21 May 2012, 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

First I hope she's looking for a different job. No one should have to put up with that. But I doubt she needs advice from you, or for you to try to fix the situation, only a sympathetic ear when she feels like venting about it.

When I am in that state (and I've had horrid work situations, though not the same one as your wife), I tend to want to be heard but not coddled or fussed over. Just someone listening helps, if they will only nod and say simple things like "that's awful" so I feel that I have their ear and their understanding. Really there's not a lot you can do, and trying to "fix" things for her - well, as a woman when a man does that I just find it annoying unless I specifically ask for help.

But you could, when she's in a calm mood (not right after work), quietly let her know that when she comes home in that state you aren't sure what she needs from you. Ask, is there something you can do or not do that will help her at those times? Or does she just want to be left alone, or want a listening ear and that's all? It's a fair question. Everyone is a little different. I like to have some privacy sometimes just to have a good cry on my own, when I'm upset, and it bothers me if my SO tries to help or comfort me then. It's something I have to do in private, or at least without any kind of fix-it attitude on his part.

I used to come home in a foul temper, and my SO who worked at home then, would have dinner ready as soon as I walked in the door and be all cheerful and want to talk. It was so nice of him, but ... it wasn't what I needed as soon as I got home. I needed to get out of my work clothes, and lie down and chill for a half hour or so. I didn't want someone feeding me or even talking to me. Once I'd had a half hour to myself, or however long it took to feel human again, then I could handle eating with him and talking a little (not usually about what had upset me just yet), and just having a quiet time.

She already knows there's nothing you can do about her situation. What she needs is to be able to vent, on her own schedule, and just have someone care. If she's someone who likes hugs, maybe a hug after she's vented a little and calmed down will help.

Mainly she probably just needs you to listen. I know it's hard when someone you love has a problem. I always want to do something to fix it, myself. But that's rarely what is really needed if it's an adult who has the problem. They just want to be listened to.

Does she like any comedies? Maybe on a really bad evening you could have some good comedy dvds lined up to watch, that she enjoys.

Also you might want to express anger toward the boss, though not enough to scare her into thinking you're going to go clean his clock. (Or maybe that's what she wants to hear. You know her better than we do.)

On a side note, if he has a boss, maybe she needs to talk to his boss about his behavior. Or learn something about employment law and whether she has a legal complaint against him if he fires her. Maybe a legal aid attorney could give her some advice. At the very least she needs to find new work if at all possible.

i think that if you just give her a hug and say, "how terrible" or "sorry to hear that" etc, it has the potential to kill the conversation and may not actually help. if you pay attention when some people say that to each other there is sometimes an awkward pause after statements like that and the conversation is essentially over. for some reason it seems to offer a full stop to the venting session. many people don't seem to want the empty platitudes - they want deeper support, and your wife may be one of them.

yes, get her talking more. but you have to be careful that your questions don't imply that she has done something wrong. it helps to get to the bottom of what is REALLY bothering her. for example, maybe she feels trapped in her job. or maybe she is scared she will get fired. or maybe she feels guilty that she doesn't have energy to help care for the house and kids after a long day. but you wouldn't just suggest those things directly. instead you could ask open-ended questions that really help to uncover her feelings, i.e:

-how did you feel when your boss said that to you?
-were there other people around who sat back and watched what happened?
-is it getting worse by the day?
-why do you think he picks on you so much?
-is there any way to avoid him?
-are you getting frustrated that you need to keep a job that isn't going as well as you want?
-if you spoke up to him, what do you think could happen?

...followed by something like...

-i'll be here for you, whatever happens. we can make it work.
-would it help you if i started to spend a bit of time doing a job search for you?
-you're strong to be able to handle all of that stress and yet still maintain a good outlook. i'm proud of you.
-how about i make you a cup of hot chocolate.

you can always speak some of the tired old platitudes, but they are kinda empty without offering real actual help beforehand. this kind of support can be exhausting to provide, but it will be less stressful than being accused of not supporting her and feeling helpless.

So we've got 3 men who think her behaviour is dealbreakingly awful, and 2 women who think it's acceptable.

Again I ask, is this a girl thing?

Thing is, the guy seems to be already doing his utmost to meet this need of hers, and simply doesn't know how. Punishing him and undermining his confidence isn't going to help, is it?

Anyway, we'll know more if / when the OP tells us how HE feels about her methods.

Its a difference in communication styles. When I vent I want to feel validated too, and I'm a man. I don't think his wife is trying to punish him, nor do I see any evidence for that, but I do think there is a big misunderstanding in how each of them wants to be treated when they are upset or out of patience. I've also had the experience where a friend of mine has been deeply hurt and/or crying, and I have not known what to say or do. Instead of shrugging my shoulders I said to her something along the lines of, "I know you're hurting, and I find it difficult to relate, but I'm sad for you that you're feeling so awful. Would you like a hug?" At that point she could say either yes or no, but at least she was aware that I was there for her and doing my best to care. Also, it helped her when I tried to keep her talking about the problem. Sometimes people just need to talk it out, and even if they don't come to any conclusions at the end, the talking itself is cathartic. I agree it is very difficult coping in this sort of situation, though.

OP: I'm not married, nor have I had a girlfriend, but it seems to me that the advice you've received so far is sound. I hope at some point your wife is able to see you trying and find herself able to help you see things from her point of view. Good luck!

It seems highly conflicting advice to me. Everything from "she's wrong, leave her" to "she's right, give her more love."

What do you think, Morbius? How do you feel about your wife's behaviour?

I should have clarified. The problem, as I see it, is not that he isn't showing her enough love, but that he's showing it in a way which isn't what she needs. It's as if you need a hammer to fix a shelf to a wall, you've mislaid yours, and instead of suggesting places you may have put it or where you could purchase a new one, someone says to you, "How awful. I'm so sorry you can't find your hammer. Would you like a cup of tea to help you feel better?" There's no malice in how she is behaving, she is simply frustrated and doesn't know what to do, just like him.

I think some of you (whether you want to categorise them all as men or women, ToughDiamond) are viewing this a bit black and white. An insult can come out in many ways. For instance, if you wrote a really long, deep letter, and you decide to open up and trust this person you're writing the letter to, with your deepest feelings that you may hide from the rest of the world - of course it's scary and you're tredding in the unknown a little, but you're writing it to that person because you trust and love them. You're exposing your fragile self, in order to seek help and support. You write a really long letter, and it takes you ages to write. Say if then, the person who you love more than anything in the world, just replies with an, "OK". This is exactly what I'm getting at. This woman is seeing it from that POV. This woman feels disrespected, because it comes across to her as, "I don't care and I don't want to listen because you're boring". And as I said, if you don't feel loved enough, or disrespected, you want to know for sure if your feelings are right. She can't figure it out - maybe because he does other loving things for her and yet they collide on something like this, or maybe because love itself can make it hard to pinpoint what it fact and what you believe. And if you can't find out by talking to them, you end up pushing the boundaries in order to see if this person does care. After all, what else could be the ultimate way to know for sure, when she's possibly tried everything else (that *perhaps* the guy can't see)? I could as easily say that she should leave him because he doesn't care enough to help her, but it's never that black and white.

I never suggested anyone get a job. It's not for me to decide either way.

Not at all - I just noticed the correlation between gender and opinion with this issue, hence my question (which hasn't been answered yet), is this a girl thing? I was wondering if the said behaviour is particularly characteristic of the female.......that would explain why the only people here who seem to understand and support it are women, and why the only people who see it as terrible behaviour are men. I was hoping somebody would step in and explain. The correlation of which I spoke could be down to something a lot less interesting though - women support women, men support men - yet I haven't noticed that particularly before on WP.

I'm sorely tempted to post more here, but I want to wait and see what the original poster thinks - and more importantly, feels - about his wife's behaviour. So I'll sit back and read for a while.