What should I say next?
nick007
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Joined: 4 May 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 27,713
Location: was Louisiana but now Vermont in capitalistic military dictatorship called USA
Well, I'm interested in making him feel more secure, because his insecurities are preventing me from getting what I want. I like his company and spending time with him, and I also feel a strong protective instinct. I can't protect him if he shuts me out - if I can't be around and/or if he won't talk to me. I am frustrated that, after coming all this way - in terms of time, geography, and hard life experience - the phantoms in his head are the only thing keeping us apart.
It nice that you want to help him but I'm wondering if you have a parent/child type relationship.
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What do you mean by "borderline" ex-wife?
You say recently divorced ... how recently? Is the divorce finalized? If not, are they separated and for how long have they been separated? What's going on with custody? What do you mean when you say you're going to bring "firepower" (I know you don't mean that literally, but I'm looking for what you do mean) to use in his favour, apparently in regards to his situation with his borderline ex-wife?
I'm just thinking if he is in a "situation" with his ex-wife it means she isn't out of his life, and he might not want you butting heads with her or otherwise making life difficult for him. Could be why he's hesitant to get into a fully committed relationship. It's a big change and I'm not clear on the calculations he has to do about everything, vis a vis marriage, family, legal considerations, how his daily life might be impacted, worries about a conflict between you and her, how his kids will react, reactions of friends/relatives etc etc etc. Add AS on top of all that and
Hmmm... perhaps he fears what will happen rather than letting it go.
To a degree I can see why he's doing this, plus I also get that you can't keep this up if he's not giving much info back.
Do I believe he can move on? Well yes, but he'll have to work very hard and also realise what he does want and if he's said that he loves you and wants you then he probably does mean that.
I think also that he's not bringing you into his kids lives hence he's keeping you at a distance so there's no conflict.
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I don't perceive it that way at all, and I don't believe he does either. But I've never asked him.
Borderline personality disorder. If it isn't full-blown or diagnosed, it accurately describes her personality, and is consistent with what I know and what he has told me about her behavior, family, and background.
The divorce took 2.5 years and was finalized at the end of last year. Early on, six months after she threw him out, she begged him to come back. He said no. I was quite surprised and impressed by that. Granted, she was horrible. She drank all the time and was a hostile drunk, always yelling and screaming at him, even in front of the kids. What little sex there was, made him uncomfortable. She's never had a real job, and spent all his money. She made all the decisions, but she wasn't happy with anything. He was still there only because of his strong loyalty and attachment to his kids, and his daily routines with them. At the time she threw him out, he freaked out and did everything he could to appease her, for that reason alone. He was very clear that he didn't give two s**ts about her, and that their relationship had been deteriorating for years. Later, he told me he was actually kind of relieved that she threw him out. His #1 concern was the kids, and "making sure they turn out to be decent human beings."
Custody: they live with his ex, but he gets them on alternating weekends (Thu-Sun). They are considerably older now, but I presume he has new routines with them. He had "no relationship" with his own father, which I believe he is determined not to repeat. He has emphasized all along that nothing is more important than his kids, and has warned me that he will drop everything for them, no matter what else is going on. He finds it hard to believe that any woman would be ok with that, but I am. I fully agree that children's needs must come before adult needs, in part because my own parents failed me in this respect. Not only am I ok with it, I'm willing to assist if there's anything I can do. I've told him so, but maybe it wouldn't hurt to repeat it, and elaborate.
By "firepower" I mean the ability to stay calm, think on my feet, and de-fuse tense, complex situations with angry, irrational people. I mean that I am able and willing to step in between him and whatever offending aspect of the NT world isn't making sense or is asking too much of him. I told him I hate people almost as much as he does (he laughed), but I know how to handle them and make problems go away. My father was the craziest, scariest, cruelest mofo on earth - an evil genius - and I've yet to encounter anyone even half as bad. My guy has been aware of this since our early days, so he trusts me when I say that I've had to deal with ten times more insanity than he has. Crazy is boring and predictable, once I determine what kind of crazy I'm dealing with. I find it irritating and bothersome rather than scary.
Right, I worried about exactly these things, but the kids are as far as his concern goes. We both know his ex will be furious no matter what he does, so what she thinks or feels or wants isn't a factor to him (or me). The only thing he's said about her is that "she can be managed." We have only briefly mentioned aspects we would need to work out, such as how much or how little would I be around (and by implication, whether we'd live separate or apart, and how much would I be involved with the kids, if at all, at least initially). I told him I don't want to pressure him or be intrusive - just offer options, since I'm flexible. I am willing and able to assist more or less daily, or I can be around less frequently and just stay out of sight for a while. I think that creates a major dilemma for him.
In fact, I think this is the key issue: two competing, possibly exclusive compulsions. I believe he is worried that I will become his special interest again, which could interfere with his 4-day weekends with the kids. He may worry that, if I'm in the picture, suddenly he won't care so much about them anymore. Back then, his need for sex with me was compulsive. I was just as into it as he was, so our relationship resembled a couple of bingeing drug addicts. He could barely last 12 hours without me, which I had difficulty understanding. I greatly enjoyed it, but it wasn't a compulsion for me. If we couldn't, I'd miss it, but waiting a few days didn't bother me. He couldn't understand that, and seemed hurt and rejected. I just accepted that the demands of real life were necessarily going to interfere sometimes. In contrast, he had great difficulty with that, greater than I appreciated at the time.
I would say his dedication to his kids is also a compulsion. My (perhaps overly simplistic) view is, I know how hard it is for him to shift gears, so of course I'd enforce discipline. I'd make him spend time with his kids, because that is a priority to me too. I don't have a strong preference as to whether (A) I'd accompany them, or (B) suggest some activities, then disappear into my work for a few days. But either way, my intention would be to make certain that he continues to spend quality time with them.
However, there would still be a problem I'm not sure how to solve. Back then, he literally could not spend the night in the same dwelling with me, without "having" me. Based on what he's said, he thinks he would still have this compulsion. But, while his kids are also spending the night, he could not act on it (due to, ahem, the noise). Now, I could maintain my own place, and refuse to stay with him on those 4 nights. But I know he wouldn't like that. It may even be too difficult for him. It's as if there is no way for him to integrate these two incompatible compulsions. As if the kids would have to grow up and move out, before there would be room for me. The oldest just turned 11. Obviously, I cannot wait another 7+ years.
I haven't discussed any of this with him, but I think I should. Gentlemen, have you any input on compulsions? I "get" AS. I don't "get" compulsions.
That is an excellent point, and would certainly explain his behavior, which has been conflicted and ambivalent all along. I believe a day would come when he'd enormously regret letting it go, which is why I'm just continuing to be patient for the time being. That may also be why he continues to respond and talk and negotiate with me. He may not be ready today, but in 1, or 3, or 6, or 12 months, he might be. I am careful not to pressure him into action - for now, just talking and gathering information is sufficient. But you're correct. I cannot keep this up forever. I'm glad it seemed to sink in, when I told him that one day I'll won't call anymore.
Sorry this is so long-winded! I really appreciate all the good questions and help thinking it through.
Update: things are on hold indefinitely. We love each other, but there is nothing we can do right now.
The only way his AS has been a factor is that he hasn't provided me with sufficient information. I have also failed to ask the right questions. His borderline personality disordered, substance-abusing ex-wife is much more severe and extreme than I appreciated. She is responsible for most of his erratic, inexplicable, frustrating behavior with me, because she controls him through the kids.
During the marriage he jumped to meet her demands, however insane or outrageous. She spied on him and threatened him and made demands that only escalated as he met each one. He described his marriage as "pretty normal," but he lived in fear and anxiety. He was relieved when she threw him out, but terrified of what would happen to the kids. His number one priority throughout the 2 1/2-year divorce was to stay involved in their lives, and do what he could to protect them from her. I have admired, respected, and encouraged his dedication to them, as difficult as that has been for us both.
Once the divorce was final, we made the natural assumption that he would be free to live his life as he pleased. Several months on, that assumption has proven incorrect, due to the shared custody arrangement. Her demands and threats continue. She has one or both children spy on him. She keeps his life under surveillance as much or more than during the marriage. She keeps him under a standing threat to sue for sole custody, to cut him out entirely, should he make the slightest misstep. She has threatened to harm or kill herself or the children if he enters into a relationship, or otherwise allows another woman to have contact with HER children. He was honest with her, so she knows about me. That accomplished nothing, except to cause her to make threats specific to me, and allow her to once threaten me directly. She issues such threats constantly, and it is impossible to predict which ones she will actually carry out.
This has been her behavior throughout, and has stopped only for brief periods. Those respites lull him into a sense of relief and complacency (when he feels safe to talk and have a little fun), only to start all over again (when he panics and shuts me out for no apparent reason). It is only now becoming clear that what we thought would end with the marriage, will never end, so long as he wants anything to do with the kids. That is non-negotiable, of course. He wants peace and happiness, which he'll never have if I'm in the picture, so has asked me to forget about him and leave him be.
My view is, he'll never have peace and happiness, whether I'm in the picture or not. It is not in her nature. She is allowed to get away with all this, to control his life so utterly, because he is too exhausted to fight. Thus, their interactions are no different now than during the marriage: she threatens and he complies, because it is easier. She holds the kids hostage, because they are young (aged 9 and 11). But once they are grown and leave home, she won't be able to do that anymore.
I told him I've been afraid that he would be mad if I moved away, but he did not object. So I will do so, and leave him be, because that is the best and only way to show my love right now. But I will not, cannot, forget about him. We've loved each other for 16 years, and we both know that will never change. We lost each other for a decade, but this time we know each others' whereabouts and phone numbers, so I'm sure we'll talk again. We always do.
Let this be a lesson. He married this woman after knowing her for only a few months, and agreed to kids a short time later, even though he didn't want that. He told me he admired her strength for overcoming her addiction. But in fact, she never did. Some of us, NTs and Aspies alike, are naive and have a soft spot for other "broken" people, perhaps because we think they will be less judgmental. But beware. This woman ruined a decade of his life, and has it in her power to ruin the next one too, and beyond. I'm not sure how yet, but I won't let that happen.
I have met so many kind, insightful people here at WP, who helped me through difficult times. I'm in unspeakable pain now, of course, but I also have a clear mission and direction again. I don't know if he is in pain too. I love him, so I don't want to be the cause of any more. But I suspect his pain goes even deeper than mine. I'll never stop hoping that I can return with happy news.