Would you still believe in love if . . .

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waitykatie
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03 Sep 2012, 9:25 pm

curlyfry wrote:

If he really wanted you he would risk it all. What's with the long post of the same story just put a link to the earlier one. Unrequited love may sound romantic in songs and books but it's not worth wasting your life away.

I'm not. That's the point. Detaching takes time and I'm still kind of in shock. I wonder if any of the men here have been through a situation as bad as this one. My confusion all along has been that it's not unrequited love; it is returned and reciprocated, just unconsummated, at least recently. I'm actually reassured that he's the kind of man who places his children above all else, despite the pain and regrets. And glad he's been careful not to drag me into the morass. That would be a waste of my life. I'm still sad, and writing helps me sort out my thoughts. Sorry for not posting in the Haven.

waitykatie
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14 Sep 2012, 1:23 am

Maybe I should add a few details. His thought process makes no sense at all to me, if anyone can shed some light on it.

At his encouragement, I moved to the same city to find a job. At his encouragement, I've stayed two years longer than I would have otherwise. As I made the transition, got settled, and the chaos of his life intensified, we had many heart-to-heart talks, on the phone and in person. Yet each time he's drawn closer, he gets scared about something, and later he reveals that I "whet his appetite," but he ate somewhere else. His rationale is always that sex between us would be emotional, plus he doesn't want to use me, because I deserve better than that. About a year ago he explained that strictly physical, no-commitments sex is all he can deal with.

I hear the words, but I don't understand his 100% avoidance of emotional sex. It strikes me as intense fear, which is reasonable considering what he's been through. But life is poor, nasty, brutish, and short. My view is, why not take all the good life offers while you can? I know he does not share that view. He fears "throwing caution to the wind," even with someone "safe" like me, an ally and a colleague who he has known for a very long time. (Attraction is not the issue. He's effused quite enough about that - to the point that I have felt teased and taunted, as if his interest has all been a huge, cruel joke.) He backed out once, saying it would be a volitional act. But saying no is also a volitional act, with consequences of its own.

He never talks about feelings or emotions - his own or anyone else's - because, as far as I can tell, he does not regard them as relevant. I have witnessed first-hand how that disregard not only ends his relationships, but ends them in a nuclear fireball. We've parted ways many times, but I never allowed it to go nuclear, because upon questioning, he always seems so clueless. He's done a lot of damage to many people along the way, but upon questioning, he is shocked and confused, and it becomes clear that it was all unintentional. What his intentions were, exactly, has always been impossible for me to discern.

He seems to think I have very high relationship expectations, and relative to what he's capable of, perhaps I do. On one hand, we had a relationship in the past, so I am familiar with what he's capable of. On the other hand, he was at his peak at the time - age 29, new graduate, with his whole life ahead of him. Now, he is 45 and his ex has taken most of what he spent all those years working for. I see a guy who still has his health, looks, success, two healthy children, and a woman who loves him. He sees a victim who gets punished no matter what he does, and doesn't trust anyone. Is he just that buried in his misery to even notice the opportunity that has passed him by?

DialAForAwesome
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14 Sep 2012, 10:01 am

Holy crap, this is a lot like my situation. :cry:

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Blammo
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14 Sep 2012, 11:09 am

The wife should fall off a building.

Oh also, this may have been mentioned.. but maybe he is scared of "messing" you up too?

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waitykatie
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14 Sep 2012, 4:41 pm

DialAForAwesome wrote:

Holy crap, this is a lot like my situation. :cry:

How so? Can you describe your situation?

Blammo wrote:

The wife should fall off a building.

I hate to agree, but . . . I do.

Quote:

Oh also, this may have been mentioned.. but maybe he is scared of "messing" you up too?

Yes. Some time ago, he said he was afraid of scrambling my brains. By now, I'm already pretty messed up, which he knows, although I'm bouncing back. I always do. This would be the 3rd or 4th time, so I can't honestly say it's unexpected. This time, I just did not realize how extreme his situation was. Now that I do, I am relieved that he's kept me outside the blast radius. But I feel guilty that I must leave him behind. I am used to being able to control my world, so accepting that I am powerless to help someone I care about is the worst feeling of all.

Northeastern292
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14 Sep 2012, 5:28 pm

waitykatie wrote:

Long, sad story - skip if not interested.

You're a handsome hunk, professionally successful, and used to bedding any woman you want. You know you're "different" but you've never heard of AS.

But while you can briefly charm the ladies initially, you struggle to maintain a relationship, so you are also used to romances ending badly. The length of time it takes mainly depends on how tolerant and patient the lady in question is. But they all leave, angry, disgusted, hurt, and driven half-insane, never to be heard from again. Except one, who has always loved you just for who you are. But you never ask her to stay, so she keeps leaving the country for extended periods of time.

So you find a lady who has also felt marginalized from the human race and is also used to unstable, turbulent relationships. She was addicted to heroin and crack, but she just completed rehab, and you admire her strength for overcoming her addiction. She's pretty and eager to get married quickly, so you go for it.

Then she wants kids. You don't, but get her pregnant anyway. Then she gets pregnant a second time without your consent. She complains that you don't make enough money, so you work harder to make more. She's never had a job or any particular interests, so she drinks. A lot, effectively replacing the drug addiction with alcohol. She complains that your beautiful, spacious house in a tony neighborhood isn't spacious or tony enough, so you move to a bigger house in a tonier neighborhood, despite that you liked where you were. You buy her a second home in the country, which you never have time to visit yourself because you're always at work. You begin paying private school tuition for the two kids, which costs the same as your college tuition at a private university. Each.

Eight years into the marriage, she's become a hostile alcoholic, nothing you do is right, no amount of money is enough, and you haven't had sex in years. She fights with you in front of the children and shrieks at you for leaving her alone with them when you travel on business. You take refuge in your morning and evening routines with the kids, whom you increasingly seek to protect from her rage and instability. She suspects you're having an affair, spies on your calls and email, and throws you out of your own house when she discovers a whiff of "evidence" that makes her imagination run wild. You've given up and are, in fact, screwing around, but not with "exception girl," whose career brought her back to town.

Although you panic, you're also relieved, and would have happily run off with exception girl if not for the kids. You're attached to them, feel guilty that you allowed them to exist in the first place, and scared about the harm your spouse might inflict on them. She begs you to come back, but you say no. You spend the next two years fighting viciously over money, property, custody, etc., until finally an agreement is reached and the divorce is finished. Believing the nightmare is over, you call exception girl, who still loves you no matter what.

You're now in your mid-40s and let this woman waste a decade of your life. She spent most of your earnings, and now you must fork over a large chunk of your income in alimony and child support. You get the kids two weekends a month, which goes ok for a few months. But that was just the eye of the hurricane. She holds them hostage and uses them as a weapon to harass you. She tells lies about you to anyone who will listen, including your own children. She's spun more and more out of control - drinking, raging, constantly making threats, using the money you pay her to spy on you and drag you back to court. She spends every waking moment finding ways to punish you for leaving her. You thought you'd be free after the divorce, but almost a year on, she controls your life even more than during the marriage.

You've spent two decades feeling victimized by women who leave for no apparent reason - but you married the worst of them all, and now you can't get rid of her. Your life is chaos, you're under incredible pressure, emotionally exhausted, and see no end in sight. You want peace and happiness but don't see how you'll ever get it. You realize you made terrible decisions that ruined your life. You want sex but no emotional involvement, which is easily obtained. You use condoms no matter what because you assume all women are lying and seek to trap and ruin you the same way. You're in Charlie Sheen mode: you don't pay women for sex, you pay them to leave. Your ex regularly threatens suicide, and has made attempts in the past. While you may understand that she is mentally ill, you're aware that you scramble women's brains, so you'll blame yourself if she ever actually does it.

Exception girl is hurt and confused because you've been telling her for years that you want her, but you've resisted acting on it, to protect her. Now you tell her to get lost and wish her the best. She tells you she's heartbroken and leaving town. You panic and call to ask when and where. She tells you and leaves you alone, but wonders why you care. She's been a loyal friend, done all she could to restore your faith in human nature, but realizes that it's hopeless, under these circumstances. She's tried to be a partner to someone who's never really had one. You're the only one she loves, but it's irrelevant to you.

So that's your situation. Would you still believe in love? Would you even care? What does exception girl mean to you?

Sounds a little similar to the story my stepdad dealt with. You never tell an exception girl to get lost though. And time sometimes heals wounds.

nick007
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14 Sep 2012, 10:47 pm

I don't think there's much hope for him as long as his ex has the kids because she is calling the shots. My advice would be to encourage him to see a really good lawyer who can sue the ex for full custody on the grounds of her being an emotionally unstable abusive alcoholic. The records of her being in rehab & any other record she probably has(like criminal or psych evils) could be used against her & he fact that she has never worked & the guy having the income should be able to make a strong case. If/when he does manage to get full custody & he settles into that; there might could perhaps be a chance with him but it's impossible rite now

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Surfman
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15 Sep 2012, 5:38 am

I was once deeply in love [for 1 year] with a woman born jan6 year of the goat. It ended

Soon[1month later] I met a woman born jan6 year of the goat, but 24 years younger
She was on holiday in NZ, we had fun for 6 weeks, then she went back to Norway[she was Sami(Laplander)]

2 months later I hook up with a German woman born jan6 year of the goat, but 12 years younger

the odds on all this happening, are 10 to the million something..... I need an aspie to work out the actual probability.....

What did this all mean, once they were all gone, and I stood back 6 months later and scratched my head?

Dont waste your time on what could have been? I'm still not sure what to take from it....

The original hunted me down 3 years later, wanting to get back together, after her toy boy used all her money and she was broke. I had been single for nearly 1 year

I refused her as I no longer loved her

Hope this helps

BlueMax
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15 Sep 2012, 2:10 pm

Does he even KNOW you're "exception woman"? (sounds like a super-hero!)

Might want to hit him over the head with that one... he might simply have NO idea! At least then you can move on with a definite YES or NO...

waitykatie
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16 Sep 2012, 12:17 am

Northeastern292 wrote:

You never tell an exception girl to get lost though.

One would think. But you might, if you think your situation is hopeless, or see no end in sight. Yet, he did want to know where I'm going. I have no idea how to reconcile that apparent inconsistency, but I'm accustomed to such ambiguity and contradiction from him. It always is/isn't. I wondered if this is an Aspie thing - but I think it's just him.

BlueMax wrote:

Does he even KNOW you're "exception woman"? (sounds like a super-hero!) Might want to hit him over the head with that one... he might simply have NO idea! At least then you can move on with a definite YES or NO...

Yeah right! I've tried to get a definite yes/no out of him m-a-n-y times over the years. It's definite enough - for now. :roll:

I believe he knows I am "exception girl." He's said I'm the only one who ever comes back, who keeps trying, who doesn't think he's a monster, who loves him just for who he is. He's said, of course I would have been better for him than any of the others. But I don't believe he thinks of things in those terms.

He has a deeply cynical outlook. He thinks his marriage was "pretty normal." :!:

When he sees loving couples walking down the street, he's jealous, and wants that, but he thinks, "that's not normal." He insisted on using condoms with me - even though we never did before (hence, I objected, and then he changed his mind). He's bitter and paranoid due to all the ways his ex abused his trust, and was starting to take it out on me, verbally. When I told him to stop, he didn't realize that's what he was doing, and apologized.

Possibly this is one reason he wanted me to go: he's a mess, and being a self-absorbed as*hole is the best he can do right now. He may not have the energy to worry about insulting anyone or hurting their feelings. He inflicted enough of it on me recently, that I will gladly scram, and let women who mean nothing to him be the punching bag. I think it makes him not a very good person, a poor role model as a parent, and I worry that his callous behavior will invite trouble. But he seems quite determined to live in the gutter. So, I think he knows I'm "exception girl." I just don't think he cares right now.

hyperlexian
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16 Sep 2012, 12:47 am

it is heartening to hear that you have left and are trying to detach from the situation. but it does sound like the door is not fully closed yet. i would like to tell you that things can be monumentally better with another person, but i am not at all sure you want to give another person a chance. i suspect you'd rather have this particular man transform into someone you could spend your life with.

you might want to cut all contact and any ties- even ties of friendship. as long as you are staying in contact with him, he likely has the power to draw you back in. and you deserve so much better treatment than what he can offer.

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supguysfriedchicken
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16 Sep 2012, 2:58 am

Surfman wrote:

The odds of that happening are one in 48,727,112. I had to, sorry. :lol:

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Surfman
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16 Sep 2012, 3:48 am

supguysfriedchicken wrote:

Surfman wrote:

The odds of that happening are one in 48,727,112. I had to, sorry. :lol:

I knew it was high. Thank you very much! I feel so special now

I never had the opportunity to get upset or strung out over her, thanks to my house mate bringing over the lonely Norwegian girl on Xmas day[yes there is a Santa] or the German girl arriving shortly after the Norwegian went back to Norway.

I was protected from sorrow by spirit, or extremely lucky by almost 49million to one.

Spirit was teaching me a lesson about sexual love, and about getting tooooo caught up with the illusory **specialness** we assign to our mates, and our relationships

I think.....

Maybe I still have a soulmate out there??? And these events were to... oh feck

Its so confusing what to make of it.....

RICKY5
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16 Sep 2012, 9:09 am

His thinking is that "exception girl" will turn into "every other girl".

waitykatie
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16 Sep 2012, 10:23 am

hyperlexian wrote:

He's kept me in limbo for a very long time. Given our history, I needed definite information directly from him in order to make a decision, change direction. I had to get pushy and provoke him a little, in order to get it. It was unpleasant, but necessary.

We have cut all contact, by mutual agreement. I once had to wage war, metaphorically speaking, to escape a crazy too. It's awful, consumes your whole life. It makes you do crazy things. You're not really aware of collateral damage. Setting aside my heartache, I want his war to end, and I want him to win. Denying that woman another target to go after (me) is honestly the best strategy. Most men would not have the strength to face it alone. But he is not "most men."

As for the door not being fully closed, I doubt it ever will be - nor do I see why that is necessary (or, frankly, possible). Whatever passed between us all those years ago resides deep in our memories. He gave me the confidence to do scary things I never would have otherwise. I made him feel like a loveable human being, and not a monster. We made each other believe in ourselves. I wrote a book for him, so he could know about all the times when I imagined him watching, took a deep breath, and kicked some ass. He hasn't read it (difficulty comprehending context, I suspect), but it will have to be pried from his cold, dead hands. We drew strength from each other, and don't have to be actively present in each others' lives to feel it.

I don't know about things being "monumentally better" with someone else. Different, yes. Better, in some ways. But there's always something vital missing. I've had many other fun, fulfilling relationships. I was married to my best friend for a decade. I'm kinda-sorta dating two people right now. My other relationships are decent, but exceedingly different from what it's like with my Aspie. He was/is like no one else I've ever met. Unique, one-of-a-kind, irreplaceable, warts and all. I was always pretty sure I'd never find that "something missing" again, and 15+ years experience has confirmed it. On a fundamental level I can't control - that I was not even aware of, for a long time - I'm not 100% present.

So I feel no burning need to pair up again or get invested in another relationship. I also don't want to be unfair or hurt anyone. I can't sit around waiting for it, but I have concrete reasons to believe the fat lady hasn't sung yet. That belief isn't hurting anyone, so until it fades or I have cause to revise it, I think it is my right to keep it.

RICKY5 wrote:

His thinking is that "exception girl" will turn into "every other girl".

I've wondered about that. I will just keep on not being "every other girl" then.

PastFixations
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16 Sep 2012, 6:17 pm

supguysfriedchicken wrote:

Surfman wrote:

The odds of that happening are one in 48,727,112. I had to, sorry. :lol:

Cheers Asp-3PO

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