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Nice guys who are tough vs Bad Boys

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Duncan
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18 Sep 2012, 11:49 am

Do you make your intent clear early on ? It's risky but worth it



DialAForAwesome
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18 Sep 2012, 11:54 am

I noticed the same thing as Shau. It does seem like, as well, at least among the few bisexual males I know, this happens to them too. They can keep a man but not a woman. Once they show any interest in the woman they get thrown into creep territory. It makes no sense.


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18 Sep 2012, 1:28 pm

DialAForAwesome wrote:
I noticed the same thing as Shau. It does seem like, as well, at least among the few bisexual males I know, this happens to them too. They can keep a man but not a woman. Once they show any interest in the woman they get thrown into creep territory. It makes no sense.


I noticed the same exact thing with me when I was single. I'm straight but I used to enjoy going to gay clubs because I enjoyed the type of music and open minded atmosphere. I noticed gay guys were always crazy about me but it was always harder to when it came to women.


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18 Sep 2012, 3:30 pm

Kjas wrote:
Shau wrote:
I'll try to describe it in more detail.

I'll do the friendly bonding thing, talking about interests, science, culture, literature, etc with a girl, but whenever I go this route I land squarely into the friend zone.

I'll do less of the talking about interests, and more of the casual banter with a girl, and whenever I do this she's interested! But then, I start hinting that I think she's awesome/intelligent/interesting and that I'm interested, and start trying to have intelligent conversations, and blam, cold.

If I just kinda string them along, showing half-interest, not really caring one way or another, then suddenly they're chasing ME instead of the other way around, and they don't lose interest.

^^ This is how the ball has pretty much rolled for me. I dunno if it's my area or the social crowds I tend to fall into (This includes a lot of university social groups), but it seems to be the name of the game out here! And I can't really do it...it's a charade I have to keep up, and it's impossible to do forever.


Sounds like a timing problem.

You're trying to switch from what you are doing that attracts them, when they require more of that before they can begin to be truly interested in you as a person, so they can progress to that stage of having those more serious conversations, at least at that time. The switch probably seems very sudden to them, and perhaps they feel you're going from "fun" to "serious" conversations / banter too quickly and it's putting them off, the attraction is lost and they are no longer interested?


Not to be a pain, but is this not a "game" in and of itself? What makes this game okay other than it's relatively harmless? Is it a positive thing because in some fashion the larger set of interactions is "safe" if it's handled this way?



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18 Sep 2012, 3:32 pm

AngelKnight wrote:
Kjas wrote:
Shau wrote:
I'll try to describe it in more detail.

I'll do the friendly bonding thing, talking about interests, science, culture, literature, etc with a girl, but whenever I go this route I land squarely into the friend zone.

I'll do less of the talking about interests, and more of the casual banter with a girl, and whenever I do this she's interested! But then, I start hinting that I think she's awesome/intelligent/interesting and that I'm interested, and start trying to have intelligent conversations, and blam, cold.

If I just kinda string them along, showing half-interest, not really caring one way or another, then suddenly they're chasing ME instead of the other way around, and they don't lose interest.

^^ This is how the ball has pretty much rolled for me. I dunno if it's my area or the social crowds I tend to fall into (This includes a lot of university social groups), but it seems to be the name of the game out here! And I can't really do it...it's a charade I have to keep up, and it's impossible to do forever.


Sounds like a timing problem.

You're trying to switch from what you are doing that attracts them, when they require more of that before they can begin to be truly interested in you as a person, so they can progress to that stage of having those more serious conversations, at least at that time. The switch probably seems very sudden to them, and perhaps they feel you're going from "fun" to "serious" conversations / banter too quickly and it's putting them off, the attraction is lost and they are no longer interested?


Not to be a pain, but is this not a "game" in and of itself? What makes this game okay other than it's relatively harmless? Is it a positive thing because in some fashion the larger set of interactions is "safe" if it's handled this way?


all things in this section are games. Some games are like tic tac toe, simple and harmless. Others are like monopoly, take a shedload of time and always ends in a fight and someone is broke.



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18 Sep 2012, 4:58 pm

TM wrote:
The other aspect is complimenting someone when they haven't "proven" themselves in that area to a point where they feel comfortable with you complimenting them on it. This goes more towards intellectual qualities, for instance going "Wow, you are really interesting" after 5 minutes of conversation where very little that the person getting the compliment has done in their mind qualifies as interesting.

.


YES! You are absolutely right about this. This was relevent for me when I was dating in the 80's. Human nature doesn't change overall so I imagine there are young women today thinking the exact same thing. Back then it used to bother me tremendously if a man complimented me on something I had only sort of done. It was as though the compliment was a canned response that he used as soon as there was the slightest excuse to use it. This can definately happen if a man lays on the complements too fast and too thick. It comes across as canned and insincere.



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18 Sep 2012, 6:25 pm

AngelKnight wrote:
Not to be a pain, but is this not a "game" in and of itself? What makes this game okay other than it's relatively harmless? Is it a positive thing because in some fashion the larger set of interactions is "safe" if it's handled this way?


Everyone, male or female, has a subconconscious process that they go through when they are dating. Just because I am breaking it down using logic, does not mean that it is a game.

Most women would not even really be aware why they weren't interested in guy anymore because this is a subconscious process, they just no that they are no longer interested. Their mind will find a rationalization afterwards, one that will be incorrect and will probably correlate (e.g. the symptom), but it will not be the true cause.

Shau can address the symptoms all he wants, but until he finds and corrects the underlying cause, nothing much will change in terms of results.


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18 Sep 2012, 7:13 pm

Guys and girls. Take this with a grain of salt if you want, but it all really comes down to attraction. When someone's attracted to you, you pretty much have them. Granted, when they lose that attraction, they can't explain why, they just simply lost that attraction.
What is attractive to women? Confidence. What type of man usually has confidence? The bad boys? Why? You all have pretty much answered that question.



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18 Sep 2012, 7:44 pm

TM wrote:
I suspect that too many compliments too soon or on the wrong things may have some of the blame. I can't remember where I read it but it was an article about what women are most complimented on by men that are hitting on them. It went something like "Smile", "Hair", "Eyes" and were in general superficial compliments.

The other aspect is complimenting someone when they haven't "proven" themselves in that area to a point where they feel comfortable with you complimenting them on it. This goes more towards intellectual qualities, for instance going "Wow, you are really interesting" after 5 minutes of conversation where very little that the person getting the compliment has done in their mind qualifies as interesting.

These kinds of compliments often come off as "sucking up" rather than being genuine, which means that they interpret them as you trying to get them to like you.


I agree.
Particularly the latter; complimenting me on my personality and intellect when all we've talked about is where I'm going on this train.
f**k off and stop trying to force a connection.


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18 Sep 2012, 8:03 pm

TM wrote:
I suspect that too many compliments too soon or on the wrong things may have some of the blame. I can't remember where I read it but it was an article about what women are most complimented on by men that are hitting on them. It went something like "Smile", "Hair", "Eyes" and were in general superficial compliments.


I usually don't compliment a person on their looks, so strike this one.

Quote:
The other aspect is complimenting someone when they haven't "proven" themselves in that area to a point where they feel comfortable with you complimenting them on it. This goes more towards intellectual qualities, for instance going "Wow, you are really interesting" after 5 minutes of conversation where very little that the person getting the compliment has done in their mind qualifies as interesting.


I can be pretty hard to impress, and amongst my circle of friends, I'm known as the guy you come to when you want a brutally honest opinion. I don't really dish compliments out easily, so if I tell a person that their knowledge of such and such field is "impressive", you can take that s**t right on home to the bank. So....strike this one too.

Kjas wrote:
...but until he finds and corrects the underlying cause...


Always working on that, but at the moment the underlying cause seems to be just this raw sexual attraction women (at least around where I'm at) have toward a guy that can and DOES dick people around a bit. I don't like it, but it seems to be it, but it's not something that I can do in the long term.

aspiemike wrote:
What is attractive to women? Confidence. What type of man usually has confidence? The bad boys? Why? You all have pretty much answered that question.


Got it in spades, man. I've also got a ton of guts. It just doens't seem to be getting me all that far, though...unlike a lot of the people on this forum, I've actually GOT and WORKED HARD for good qualities such as determination, fitness, knowledge, etc...but apparently, it's not as much of an "Iwin button" as a lot of people seem to make it out to be.