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do you think i make a good point?

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ComradeKael
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23 Oct 2012, 8:13 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
ComradeKael wrote:
J-Greens wrote:
Chivalrous, Manners, Politeness, Decency, Courtesy, Equality, Gentlemanly, Respect...it's all the same thing really, so no offense to you ComradeKael, but bloody hell. Sexist?!

Is this the new feminist crusade, wiping out the fundamental structures that hold our society above mere animals?! :roll:


They are not the same, Sir. Assuming that women are dainty and weak and in need of a man to take care of everything is sexist.


Yes.

Holding the door for someone behind you so it doesn't slam in their face= manners.

Pulling out a seat for a woman because she's too helpless and dainty to do it herself = sexist.


That is correct. I am glad we are on the same page with this issue.



Taverson
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23 Oct 2012, 10:10 pm

antifeministfrills wrote:
patdbunny wrote:
I think men have basically been emasculated. They're treated like dirt. Like women don't need them.

I still like having doors opened for me, chairs pulled out, etc. But it seems women now a days are contemptuous of those behaviors as though they feel men are treating them as "inferior" and "incapable" with these courtesies.

It's too bad. There are differences between the sexes. I don't especially like the "we're all the same". We can be treated differently depending on our sex, that doesn't mean one or the other is inferior to the other.


Men are treated like dirt? That's not what I've observed. Girls are molested in public and people egg the guy on. Women who are 'sluts' ('slut' being a misogynistic concept) apparently deserve to be bullied until they kill themselves. Etc. With regard to the opening doors thing - it annoys me when people of either gender do this and expect to be patted on the back for it/get huffy if you don't say thank you. I think some guys think that if they act like 'gentlemen' then they're entitled to sex from women. Nope.


I hold the door open for anyone and everyone simply because of how I was raised. I don't expect a thank you and sometimes don't even get one. Please do not assume all men are like this based off what may be a few bad samples of malekind,


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MXH
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23 Oct 2012, 10:28 pm

forget about just the op, ive yet to see a good point in this thread



J-Greens
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24 Oct 2012, 3:44 am

Who_Am_I, let me correct you

Holding the door for someone = manners.
Pulling out a seat for someone = manners.

Sexist? :roll:

So what now then? If I ask please for simple common tasks I'm now weak and pathetic? Joke.



Who_Am_I
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24 Oct 2012, 3:50 am

J-Greens wrote:
Who_Am_I, let me correct you

Holding the door for someone = manners.
Pulling out a seat for someone = manners.

Sexist? :roll:

So what now then? If I ask please for simple common tasks I'm now weak and pathetic? Joke.


Doing those things for anyone, regardless of gender= manners.

Doing it because their gender somehow means they shouldn't have to open doors for themselves: sexist.


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ComradeKael
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24 Oct 2012, 9:42 am

J-Greens wrote:
Who_Am_I, let me correct you

Holding the door for someone = manners.
Pulling out a seat for someone = manners.

Sexist? :roll:

So what now then? If I ask please for simple common tasks I'm now weak and pathetic? Joke.


No. The point I was attempting to make is. If someone, for example a male. Holds a door open for a woman and expects a date and a pat on the back? That's... sexist. Manners are not sexist. However, doing something with the motivation of impressing a girl, consistently doing small task for her to impress/court her is sexism.



patdbunny
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24 Oct 2012, 11:06 am

ComradeKael wrote:
However, doing something with the motivation of impressing a girl, consistently doing small task for her to impress/court her is sexism.

And the problem with that is. . . .? Without courting rituals, how does one who is the subject of mate-interest know someone is interested?
This behavior does not necessarily denote an opinion that the recipient is "weak", "dainty", etc.



ComradeKael
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24 Oct 2012, 12:17 pm

patdbunny wrote:
ComradeKael wrote:
However, doing something with the motivation of impressing a girl, consistently doing small task for her to impress/court her is sexism.

And the problem with that is. . . .? Without courting rituals, how does one who is the subject of mate-interest know someone is interested?
This behavior does not necessarily denote an opinion that the recipient is "weak", "dainty", etc.


So if someone holds a door open for me I should presume they are romantically interested in me? There are ways to impress individuals and court them without reinforcing gender based stereotypes.

The definition of Sexism is as followed "attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles. " Therefore. Reinforcing and doing anything that is done with the sole intent of propagating a traditional stereotype or sexual role, is at the core of the definition 'Sexist'. We can argue semantics all day long, I am well prepared to do so. No gender should expect another to treat them in a certain manner because of their gender (Or lack thereof). Nor should you treat someone a certain way based on their gender, treat them that way /because/ they are a fellow human, not an object of sexual desire.



patdbunny
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24 Oct 2012, 12:23 pm

sorry. i'm obviously getting sidetracked by the trees. still not understanding as i have same sex couple friends who do these gestures to members of their own sex both in the form of mate interest and just as courtesy.



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24 Oct 2012, 12:27 pm

From a transgender man:

Quote:
'Men get treated like s***,' he says. 'I mean, I know women get treated like s*** all the time. But like, when you’re a man, people just bump into you all over the place. You have to hold doors, but nobody says thank you. And you don’t get compliments, ever.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... hange.html

So good luck to him converting to a man.

I've got some compliments from women, it's not all that bad.



J-Greens
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24 Oct 2012, 4:34 pm

ComradeKael wrote:
No. The point I was attempting to make is. If someone, for example a male. Holds a door open for a woman and expects a date and a pat on the back? That's... sexist. Manners are not sexist. However, doing something with the motivation of impressing a girl, consistently doing small task for her to impress/court her is sexism.


My Manners, Gestures, Politeness, Decency, Courtesy, Equality and general respect are NOT or NEVER WILL BE sexually driven. They're simply part and parcel of living.



digital_eve
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24 Oct 2012, 4:51 pm

another anti-woman post. a woman gave birth to you.

women are not responsible for your issues-you are. be accountable. man up and stop blaming and whining.

jaysus.



ComradeKael
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24 Oct 2012, 5:06 pm

digital_eve wrote:
another anti-woman post. a woman gave birth to you.

women are not responsible for your issues-you are. be accountable. man up and stop blaming and whining.

jaysus.


I would be careful. You will likely be called a man-hating "Feminazi" :lol:



J-Greens
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24 Oct 2012, 5:53 pm

ComradeKael, please do not feed the trolls. The bait doesn't work on me.



antifeministfrills
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01 Nov 2012, 5:31 am

Taverson wrote:
antifeministfrills wrote:
patdbunny wrote:
I think men have basically been emasculated. They're treated like dirt. Like women don't need them.

I still like having doors opened for me, chairs pulled out, etc. But it seems women now a days are contemptuous of those behaviors as though they feel men are treating them as "inferior" and "incapable" with these courtesies.

It's too bad. There are differences between the sexes. I don't especially like the "we're all the same". We can be treated differently depending on our sex, that doesn't mean one or the other is inferior to the other.


Men are treated like dirt? That's not what I've observed. Girls are molested in public and people egg the guy on. Women who are 'sluts' ('slut' being a misogynistic concept) apparently deserve to be bullied until they kill themselves. Etc. With regard to the opening doors thing - it annoys me when people of either gender do this and expect to be patted on the back for it/get huffy if you don't say thank you. I think some guys think that if they act like 'gentlemen' then they're entitled to sex from women. Nope.


I hold the door open for anyone and everyone simply because of how I was raised. I don't expect a thank you and sometimes don't even get one. Please do not assume all men are like this based off what may be a few bad samples of malekind,


I'm not assuming all men are like that.



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01 Nov 2012, 5:46 am

patdbunny wrote:
II still like having doors opened for me, chairs pulled out, etc. But it seems women now a days are contemptuous of those behaviors as though they feel men are treating them as "inferior" and "incapable" with these courtesies..


See I like that, women that are old fashioned and like me doings things like that. One girl said she loved that I had strong biceps that could protect her and complements of the like. I also love lifting heavy things, basically impressing women.

I'll tell you what, if I lived near you, I would come and lift those haystacks with my shirt off and muscles oiled. You know, the thought of it has pumped me up for a workout, we need more women like you.

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