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"The Science of the Friend Zone"

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BlueMax
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14 Jan 2013, 4:41 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
yes, we are random. we have many ways of doing things - men and women don't necessarily have to follow a script.


I never said we did. I understand you really, really dislike any reference to gender roles - I wasn't going in that direction.



hyperlexian
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14 Jan 2013, 4:46 pm

BlueMax wrote:
Yep, in the animal world the male has to build the nest, dance the dance, sing the song and impress the female into choosing him.

I don't think we humans all that different in that regard. ;)

you said this ^^^^. looks like gender roles to me. did i misunderstand?


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BlueMax
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14 Jan 2013, 4:53 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
BlueMax wrote:
Yep, in the animal world the male has to build the nest, dance the dance, sing the song and impress the female into choosing him.

I don't think we humans all that different in that regard. ;)

you said this ^^^^. looks like gender roles to me. did i misunderstand?


You took a small thing and made it a huge one. I could quibble over the words "in that regard" but really - is it that big of a deal???



hyperlexian
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14 Jan 2013, 4:56 pm

BlueMax wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
BlueMax wrote:
Yep, in the animal world the male has to build the nest, dance the dance, sing the song and impress the female into choosing him.

I don't think we humans all that different in that regard. ;)

you said this ^^^^. looks like gender roles to me. did i misunderstand?


You took a small thing and made it a huge one. I could quibble over the words "in that regard" but really - is it that big of a deal???

to me, gender roles are definitely a big deal, especially when used as a way to subtly make it look like one gender has it easy while the other gender has to work hard. i work against that system.


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Last edited by hyperlexian on 14 Jan 2013, 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Jan 2013, 4:57 pm

Gender roles exist in nature, that's why it exists in human's societies.



hyperlexian
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14 Jan 2013, 4:59 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Gender roles exist in nature, that's why it exists in human's societies.

then... why isn't it the same in every society?


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The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Jan 2013, 5:01 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Gender roles exist in nature, that's why it exists in human's societies.

then... why isn't it the same in every society?


do you think they're that different from one to another? You're always focusing on the variations, not what's common.



hyperlexian
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14 Jan 2013, 5:02 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Gender roles exist in nature, that's why it exists in human's societies.

then... why isn't it the same in every society?


do you think they're that different from one to another? You're always focusing on the variations, not what's common.

they are very different, yes.


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Marcia
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14 Jan 2013, 5:04 pm

When throughout history, and still today, women and girls have been and are considered to be property to be married off by their fathers/families, then comparison to the mating rituals of animals seems an exercise in futility.



Last edited by Marcia on 14 Jan 2013, 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Jan 2013, 5:05 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Gender roles exist in nature, that's why it exists in human's societies.

then... why isn't it the same in every society?


do you think they're that different from one to another? You're always focusing on the variations, not what's common.

they are very different, yes.


Are you saying that human is a gender-role-less species by default? Give me a break.



BlueMax
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14 Jan 2013, 5:05 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Gender roles exist in nature, that's why it exists in human's societies.

then... why isn't it the same in every society?

Why don't we all have the same religion? Same culture? Same laws? Same expectations?

We're different. Call us tribal... whatever the reasons, there's no denying it exists. Some cultures have very defined gender roles and they function very well. Some cultures with similarly defined gender roles fail miserably because they're cruel or unfair.
I would say a society with no definition of gender roles also does not determine the health of the relationships in that culture... if other factors prevail (like North America's prevailing mocking and humiliation of men) it will not end up in a healthy manner.



The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Jan 2013, 5:07 pm

Marcia wrote:
When throughout history, and still today, women and girls have been and are considered to be property to be married off by their fathers/families, then comparison to the mating rituals of animals seems an exercise in futility.


We can look at the modern times for a more fair comparison.



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14 Jan 2013, 5:12 pm

BlueMax wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Gender roles exist in nature, that's why it exists in human's societies.

then... why isn't it the same in every society?

Why don't we all have the same religion? Same culture? Same laws? Same expectations?

We're different. Call us tribal... whatever the reasons, there's no denying it exists. Some cultures have very defined gender roles and they function very well. Some cultures with similarly defined gender roles fail miserably because they're cruel or unfair.
I would say a society with no definition of gender roles also does not determine the health of the relationships in that culture... if other factors prevail (like North America's prevailing mocking and humiliation of men) it will not end up in a healthy manner.

i agree to some extent - i was disagreeing with Boo, basically saying each culture is a bit different. about gender roles, hard to say, it varies. the health of some countries in northern europe is quite good, and they are much better with gender equality across the board. but that may be due to other factors


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Boxman108
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14 Jan 2013, 5:14 pm

I think that if humans can be the dominant species overall, it's certainly possible to throw out gender roles altogether. If we still acted like animals and let our instincts come before rational thought, we would be nowhere near as far along as we are today. They are sexist and detrimental.


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hyperlexian
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14 Jan 2013, 5:21 pm

Boxman108 wrote:
I think that if humans can be the dominant species overall, it's certainly possible to throw out gender roles altogether. If we still acted like animals and let our instincts come before rational thought, we would be nowhere near as far along as we are today. They are sexist and detrimental.

:heart: :bounce:


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Kurgan
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14 Jan 2013, 6:24 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
BlueMax wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Gender roles exist in nature, that's why it exists in human's societies.

then... why isn't it the same in every society?

Why don't we all have the same religion? Same culture? Same laws? Same expectations?

We're different. Call us tribal... whatever the reasons, there's no denying it exists. Some cultures have very defined gender roles and they function very well. Some cultures with similarly defined gender roles fail miserably because they're cruel or unfair.
I would say a society with no definition of gender roles also does not determine the health of the relationships in that culture... if other factors prevail (like North America's prevailing mocking and humiliation of men) it will not end up in a healthy manner.

i agree to some extent - i was disagreeing with Boo, basically saying each culture is a bit different. about gender roles, hard to say, it varies. the health of some countries in northern europe is quite good, and they are much better with gender equality across the board. but that may be due to other factors


I can't speak for Brits or Germans, but Norway has very defined gender roles, where girls are extremely passive in terms of dating. The moment a woman displays the attributes of a strong leader (Google Siv Jensen for an example), the media calls her a lesbian.