Am I a Carrot?

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Check the other thread, Ann.

i think that women and men who are worth dating don't see sex or love as a transaction. some people do see it that way, but in my opinion they are not worth bothering about.

I would say yes. If someone does something with the expectation of getting something in return, then it's not really being nice. If you buy something in a store you are getting something for something. Neither you or the store clerk are being nice to each other, it's just a business transaction. That's my opinion anyway.

Well said!

The guys who complain that they're "too nice" and "friend zoned" are exactly those who feel like they deserve sex and affection for being "nice" and buying her things.

You are not a carrot; you a member of the species homo sapiens. You don't have to do anything for anyone just because they are nice to you.

I am however, a jelly doughnut.

I think maybe sex is a commodity. The myth of shared exploration and fulfillment is just too improbable. Don't get me wrong ... I like sex, but I think it does have value as a currency and I don't think this is immoral. No more immoral than selling food and water.

This type of thing is why I prefer to pay my own way on dates.
The whole idea of a relationship as a series of transactions makes me feel sick.
If I want to sleep with a guy who wants to sleep with me, I'll do it because I want to, not because I feel obligated to.

The whole idea that taking a girl out on a date makes her owe you something kind of disgusts me. Just the shallowness of it. I mean, if you're just bargaining for sex, then go up to a girl and ask her if she'll have sex with you in exchange for a date at some nice place. I mean, the whole idea of dating is to meet someone and potentially start a relationship. Sex isn't part of the contract, so don't pretend it is.

Similarly, I also hate the idea of the guy having to pay for the girl on a date. Dating is supposed to be mutual, something that both people want to do. If I ever go on a date with a girl (and I hope I do), I'll offer to split the bill. If she gets miffed, fine, I'll pay the whole thing, but I'll have lost all interest in her at that point.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rZu-tBi7DM[/youtube]

I agree with the concept of going dutch for the first few dates - that way if things do get... "interesting"... both parties are certain there's no obligation involved!

I agree with this, but unfortunately that's not a very common mentality with people I've found. Usually I've found that I'm supposed to come and pick them up and do all the driving (meaning I'm always on edge during dates as I hate driving, and can't drink because then I can't drive her home) and then I'm supposed to pay for everything...

The women I get along with best are generally the ones who go long with a quid pro quo payment thing.. I pay for dinner, she pays for coffee and desert kind of thing..

The "sex is a commodity" thing goes both ways. Some men expect sex after dinner, and some women expect dinner before sex - it's the same thing. Early on, every relationship involves exploration and experimentation in determining what will work and how. If it does work, great! However, if it doesn't, why vilify an individual or an entire group? Most attempts at a relationship turn out to be klutzy failures. And that's it - one person zigged, while the other person zagged.

Generally because unlike people who have everything going for them.. we don't have the perception of unlimited opportunities to try again, so it adds extra stress and expectation to each interaction. I've heard this referred to as "Oneitus" and I know I suffer from it horribly.. lack of success breeds it, reinforces it, and ultimately turns it into a serious problem.

I've always been so independent, that I actually struggle with letting anyone offer to pay anything for me. I will however, be content to pay for everything. Which I am now learning is wrong, and as said in another post, leads to abuse. I would never in my wildest dreams, expect anyone to do anything with me, that they were unwilling to do. Intimacy will naturally occur if there is any chemistry.

This to tell you, that despite me being the one who usually paid, there was sometimes still the expectation that I should "put out". It depends on the person. If they are intent on having sex, they will have that in mind, without consideration of who pays for what.

So we can't really generalise. People are all different, and as you receive different opinions here, you will have as many more in real life.

Just never, ever, do anything out of what may be perceived as an obligation. You have no accountability to give out your body under pressure.

If a girl expects me to pay for everything on a first date, I see that as a HUGE red flag.......

And also means they are much less likely to get "The D" from me. I'm more than happy to withhold sex from a woman if I feel like I'm getting a raw deal in the relationship. It's more fun and rewarding when you get to the point of making them want it more than you.