On romantic relationships

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I hope most women are not like you no offense

Sorry to hear about your late fiance.

OK, have you had sex before? I don't mean to be rude or anything, but in order for the both parties to enjoy sex, especially for the woman to enjoy sex, the man has to be committed to making the experience enjoyable for her. The chit chat before the intercourse is to establish whether the man is the kind that will make it enjoyable to have sex with him or if he is the kind that will just look after his own needs (a jerk).

As for what you guys wrote, I am quite different. When I see an attractive person I really want to have sex with them. Yes I would prefer a loving relationship but even if that was not possible I would still much rather have the sex by itself than nothing.

As aspies it may take decades or centuries for us to find compatible life partners lol. Why not have fun until then? Of course if sex by itself is not fun for you then I understand, but I really want it. And given that I often see women with whom attraction is mutual, it is really really frustrating for me that the only thing holding me back is inability to make pointless small talk and BS.

Chit chat about what? BS? I can discuss philosophy, science, math, star trek and say pretty smart things. I cannot spontaneously make chit chat! If I open my mouth it is to say something meaningful not to BS.

Sex is a much bigger risk for women than for men. They can get pregnant. They can get hurt. They can get all kinds of venereal diseases that may impact their later ability to get pregnant. There is still somewhat of a double standard, i.e., men who have casual sex are just "sowing wild oats" or a "stud." Women who have casual sex are "loose," "slu*ty," even "whores." OF COURSE women want to make sure the man is at least somewhat invested - at least to the point of being careful and considerate - before saying "oh hell yeah, let's f**k."

Protection can greatly lower the risk. And society's judgement of women as "sluts" is biggest part of the problem. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to judge someone else because they gave in to their natural desires and had sex. Those who would disrespect others for this are freaks.

OP, your posts here suggest to me there you're very forward and direct. My question to you is how much success have you had at a bar or nightclub setting?

While being direct can work in that setting, playfulness works as well. If you aren't willing to play, then they won't be either. This includes women seeing how much you are emotionally invested into them like leafplant and euraka have previously suggested. The reasons why would include the fact that women like to talk, and they like to talk alot. And they like to be listened to when they talk. Even if you don't want to listen, you can at least pretend to.

Well I hold the view that "no strings attached sex with a stranger" is dangerous and harmful regardless of your gender or sexual orientation.

Years ago in London we had a man (Colin Ireland, AKA the gay slayer). He would pick up gay men who thought that they were going to have sex with him, he would then get them tied up in a bondage game and then kill them. While it is unlikely that you will meet a modern day version of the gay slayer (or a straight slayer) it is possible that while on a quest for sex with strangers that you will meet some very nasty people.

I think that hyena needs to think long and hard, sex is more than just a physical act. People do enjoy sex, but to enjoy themselves people need to be able to trust each other.

Ok. so look for someone who enjoys your kind of chit chat. Lots of girls like Star Trek and such geeky stuff. Talk about stuff you like, but be ready to let the topic go if you don't get the right response. If you run out of topics and can't find a way to connect, move on to the next bar stool.

Or better yet, give up on the bars, since you don't have the requisite skills. Find a game you can win. Most women don't spend a lot of time there anyway and, when they do, it's more likely to be with a bunch of friends and not to look for someone to pick up. The few who do frequent bars are exactly the kind of women you don't want.

Um, no. It's really not a factor at all. The sexual revolution was history long before my time. Those "ancient taboos" had no impact at all on my behavior when I was a kid, and I'm sure they are even less important to young women today. Maybe someone in your past said or hinted at some "ancient taboo" as an excuse, but it was a lie. The real reasons women tend to be more choosy are too complicated and don't fit in a sound bite. Even if you found someone who understood her own motives and biologically-based preferences, and was inclined to try to educate you, you couldn't hear it in a noisy bar anyway.
(By the way, don't try use this topic as a pick-up line. Nothing would turn off a potential mate faster.)

Again, no. Casual sex is *NOT* a natural desire for most. Giving in to YOUR wishes would be extremely unnatural, unpleasant and pointless.

Ever wonder why prostitution is still thriving, even though the sexual revolution has come and gone, and prostitution is still illegal most places?

It's because single men can't get sex in their normal social circles as often as they might like, and that's because single women for the most part aren't interested in casual, no-strings sex. Voila - that's what prostitutes are for: casual, no-strings sex. Hence the reason there is still a wee bit of stigma attached to women who have no-strings sex......

Not that I've *not* ever had sex outside of a serious, long-term relationship. But the times that I did, even if I was pretty sure it was not going to lead to a forever relationship, I had first gotten to know the guy to some extent, enjoyed his company on some level, and at least *liked* him.

I do not go to bars or to night clubs. I went while underage but not anymore :p

As for the danger of psychopaths, I don't take this seriously. The chances of something like this occurring are so slim they are not worth worrying about considering the potential benefit. You are in more danger from traffic accidents than psychopaths. You might as well never go out for a walk because there is a chance you might get run over by a car. There are often risks associated with benefits but if the risk is slim and the expected benefit is big you simply disregard the risk and enjoy your life. Besides, I am a pretty strong man, not many women can physically overpower me to slay me lol

Tahiti,
I appreciate the advice. Women are still judged by their sexual behaviour. Not like in the past, but still. Call someone sexually loose and see what happens. Now I think it has more to do with how women perceive themselves. I think that many women will feel guilty if they are sexually loose even though they may enjoy the act. If they can get rid of this useless guilt they can make their lives more pleasant. I think this guilt at least partly comes from social judgement.

It is interesting that you mention pick-up lines. What could be more stupid, and what could possibly make my point clearer? Pick-up lines are a clear symptom of the very idiocy I abhor. Let's not even consider sex only relationships. Suppose I wanted to find a permanent lover. I see a woman I find attractive and I think she is a potential lover (based on what I see). She sees me and I can understand she is also interested. I decide to go talk to her. Why would I say anything to her other than: I find you attractive, I am looking for a permanent lover and think you potentially qualify. If you feel likewise we should communicate in order to determine if we are compatible in other ways? Yet if someone is perfectly honest and says something like the above they will be laughed at even if the other person is clearly interested. Apparently honesty is inappropriate.

What is with pick-up lines? Why say something idiotic and meaningless instead of being perfectly honest? This is exactly the point I am trying to make. If women want someone who can make up mildly witty, often idiotic, sentences on the fly, then I am not their type. I will not make a clown of myself to get nookie!
If I may ask you a question, do you have AS?

Are you sure you are all that fond of honesty?

I think you know exactly why the social chit chat is needed you just can't be bothered with it so you are trying to blame your laziness to do your bit of the social contract on the women who are unwilling to let you have sex with them just because your hormones made their hormones do a double take.

you must by now be aware that women do not find casual sex as appealing as men, and yet you keep going on with this rhetoric of "if only society wasn't so puritan, i could get me some' which is quite frankly repulsive and makes you sound like a wannabe cult leader.

There is nothing in your words that indicates that you are even marginally interested in making anyone other than yourself happy, so, why, in the world would anyone let you have sex with them, whether you are being direct or not. Plenty of guys have pulled with just "Wanna f**k" so it's not unheard of, but the fact that you are not being successful point out to a failing on your part, and not anything societally repressive.

I mean. If you want honesty.

What are people like where you live; do you like almost everyone? Or do you simply not care what they are like? Even sex outside the context of a committed relationship is more than just physical sensation; there is some amount of psychological connection. People know that not everyone is the sort of person they want to connect with psychologically, so they don't want to have sex with absolutely anyone, even if the experience would be physically pleasurable. Different people can have wildly different perspectives on and motivations for seeking sexual acts, and that affects how enjoyable the experience is. You want to make sure someone is on the same page sexually, you must get to know that person a bit.

LOL
Chit-chat is not fun for me nor is it fun for the other person when we have just met. I am not spontaneous especially when anxious. And I am willing to let these women have sex with me not only the other way around! I find rebellion against society's stupidity attractive, others don't, that's fine! You mention cult leaders, I am not religious, but i have always wanted to become the Pope, they got such nice costumes, every day is Halloween LOL :p

I do want want to make others happy and I do want to love but not by making a fool of myself. I would rather gather dust 5 inches thick on my c**k than make a clown of myself. I am not the only one who lost here, the women that come chasing me also lose because I cannot tell them what I honestly feel. You have made many unsubstantiated claims.

I had to learn to flirt - it was not natural behavior for me. Even though I am direct and straightforward myself, I learned at an early age that not everyone is like that, especially in the south, where everybody, especially the women, are raised to be "nice" and "polite" all the time (which in essence means NEVER saying exactly what you think). After getting in trouble a kazillion times as a kid for saying exactly what was on my mind (which is considered to be height of rudeness), I had to learn to either never say anything at all around people (especially those I had just met), or learn how to say things so they wouldn't get me in trouble. Sink or swim. I swam. Rather badly for quite a long time, but at least I could dog paddle and keep my head above water in most cases.

Then, when I entered the age of dating, I knew I had to learn how to engage in "flirtation" or "banter" in order to fit with what most people expect (and respond to). I watched, I listened, I asked questions of girlfriends (and guy friends), and I gradually incorporated it into my basic socialization skillset that I had learned (had beaten into me) when younger. I had my share of moments walking up to some cute guy, saying "I find you attractive and would like to get to know you better" and having the guy more or less flip out. In any case, it never worked, not even once. And here, even knowing what I know now, I still would expect that males would be totally open to that kind of thing. They weren't. Still aren't, last I checked.

I don't know if you were asking me, but yes, I am diagnosed with HFA. But I wasn't diagnosed until a few months ago (I'm in my late 50s). So, when I was young, I knew I saw and felt things differently than everybody else, but, not knowing that there was a neurological reason for me being different from everybody else, I figured it was up to me to become more like them, not up to them to become more like me. I treated it as an intellectual exercise.

Funny thing, once I learned to flirt and engage in witty banter, I found that there's no intellectual exercise that is more fun than engaging in witty banter, especially with someone I'm attracted to. It makes socialization, something I normally hate, into a kind of game for me, no matter who I'm talking to. And I still stumble at times, and blurt out something horrifically blunt and inappropriate, but at least now I have learned what is generally considered "blunt to the point of rudeness" and I can apologize if need be, or occasionally pass it off as a joke.

Anyway, my point is: you seem quite intelligent. Set out to learn how to talk to people without crossing that artificially (societally) constructed line between tact and honesty. My late Aspie fiance never lost his bluntness, but he developed a sense of humor that he employed almost 100% of the time when socializing with anyone he didn't know well, so that any time he would say something inappropriate, he could make a joke out of it if it didn't go over well. Personally, I found it endearing (being prone to do the same kind of thing), but not everyone did (even his own close family members complained about it ad nauseum).

This is why I would like to find another Aspie partner someday, when I am ready to move on with my life. The thing that he and I did best for each other was enable the other to NOT have to use those "social filters" that we'd had to develop all our lives. It can be tiring to keep those filters in place 100% of the time. I think that why's so many of us long for a relationship with "the one" - "the one" being that someone who allows us to be ourselves without having to maintain a facade of being someone we're not.

Look at it this way - you could spend the rest of your life trying to make everyone be like you, or you could dedicate a chunk of your own time right now to learn the social niceties and practice applying them until you get good at it. The first way, you will frustrated until the day you die; the second way, you will be frustrated for awhile until it starts to "click" for you, and then the rest of your life will be much smoother.

Sorry for the potentially TLDR post, I must be in "old lady lecture mode" today.

That was not only unnecessarily harsh; it is not true. The correct word would be “social deficit.” That’s pretty much why we’re all here.

It’s like calling a guy in a wheelchair “lazy” for not participating in a sporting event. He would need extreme accommodation (basketball in wheelchairs) or a different kind of game altogether.

Hyena needs to find ways to connect with people socially. And before he can do that, he needs to understand why it’s necessary and accept the reality. That’s not easy to do.

(Come to think of it, I still haven’t found a way to accept some things. One of my big issues revolves around a**-kissing / social pecking order / office politics… For most of my life, I just bumbled through, and had absolutely no idea why I got into so much trouble. Nobody will ever tell you that the boss wants his a** kissed, when, or specifically how. No one will ever tell you who is allowed to make jokes, or why that person's troubles or interests are more important than mine. Even on the rare occasion I understand it, I still can’t do it properly; there will always be that hesitation that makes it come over as calculated and insincere, because it is. The more I come to understand just how much a** kissing I’m expected to do, the more reclusive and disgusted with the world I become.)

So anyway, it’s not easy to understand, accept and adapt to a world that you find crazy and disgusting. I can relate. Even when I don’t agree with Hyena's arguments.