Why DO males take the responsibility for initiating?

Page 2 of 8 [ 121 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next

LoveforLoki
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 2 Mar 2012
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 356
Location: Scandinavia

15 Apr 2014, 4:30 am

Women put in just as much effort if not more, just in different ways.

Grooming: hairstyles, perfumes, make up, beauty treatments, shaving, plucking, waxing, clothing, high heels, tanning or fake tan (some) etc...

Body: Body modification (Breast implants, face lifts, tummy tucks), diets, padded bras, workouts, yoga, etc...

Personality: acting more "sexy" to get a man to notice her which is not really how she may be in real life with friends and family, this is especially hard if you are not a typical girly girl and quite an introvert.

For example: When I was growing up I never could attract a guy because I had no idea how to act like a cute and flirty girl, I hated the cheerleader types in my school and those were the type of girls ALL the guys wanted. I was not interested in being seen as a sexual object or striving to look like a barbie doll so I did not achieve girlfriend status with anyone.

It is not as easy as men like to think it is, if you do not work your butt off to keep a man interested in you there is always the chance they will move on to something better (sexier) if the opportunity rears itself. Unless you find a truly genuine man who loves you regardless of your faults, the true you, the at home with messy hair baggy pajamas you, the caught the flu and got puke in your hair you and finding that guy is extremely hard. I have learned in life that men, more than women have a hard time to control their sexual attraction to other women, hence why they have a higher cheating spousal rate and why the porn industry is huge, and 99% of strip clubs are for men.

After all this is a mans world...


_________________
I am an artist! Here is an example of some of my art:
http://instagram.com/Darby_Lahger


Last edited by LoveforLoki on 15 Apr 2014, 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,051
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

15 Apr 2014, 4:34 am

LoveforLoki wrote:
Women put in just as much effort if not more, just in different ways.

Grooming: hairstyles, perfumes, make up, beauty treatments, shaving, plucking, waxing, clothing, high heels, tanning or fake tan (some) etc...

Body: Breast implants (some), face lifts (some), diets, padded bras, workouts, yoga, etc...

Personality: acting more "sexy" to get a man to notice her which is not really how she may be in real life with friends and family, this is especially hard if you are not a typical girly girl and quite an introvert.



Males also do grooming, shave, taking care of skin, go to gym, take steroids, Growth Hormone, testosterone injections which are even more harmful than implants and face lifts.
and they also have to work a lot on their personality and their social skills.

All the things you've described have equivalent parallels for the males + the males have to initiate things described in the OP which is something females rarely do.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 15 Apr 2014, 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,051
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

15 Apr 2014, 4:44 am

FMX wrote:
There is something I've never understood about heterosexual dating. It's something that everyone seems to accept as "just the way things are", but I don't understand why - and I'd like to. It's kind of hard to formulate as a precise question, especially one that doesn't come across as a rant or completely childish, but here's my best shot at it:

Why do males generally put in all the effort in initiating relationships?

I constantly read about the man having to "attract" the woman, to actually initiate contact and ask her out, to keep her interested in the early stages and so on. It's perceived as completely normal for the man to, basically, sell himself to the woman and for the woman to choose from competing sellers.[1] There are already many threads about this, so I don't want to go into too much detail - hopefully you get what I'm talking about.

What I'd like to know is why this is the case or, more specifically, why men go along with this. For once, it's male behaviour that puzzles me! I understand why women go along with it - less effort is easier than more effort and they can, apparently, get away with it.[2] If I could - I would, too!

I get the strong impression that males are just more desperate for relationships than females. (And I am talking about relationships here, not just sex.) Are they actually? If so, why? If not, why do they act as if they are?

This somewhat makes sense on online dating sites, because there the males outnumber females 2:1 (at least). But it makes no sense as a general attitude, since the number of single men and single women must be approximately equal. So while there appears to be a strong supply-demand imbalance I can't see how there could actually be one.[3] So why don't things look more balanced, with each gender putting in roughly the same amount of effort and treating each other more equally? Are women just that much happier to stay single than men? What am I missing here?

Please note: this is a serious question, not a rant. I'm looking for insight, not rhetoric.

[1] Yes, I understand that there are exceptions. I'm talking about overall trends here and I think few would argue that this is not the case in general.
[2] Yes, I know that women also have dating problems. This is not another "who has it easier?" thread.
[3] It's theoretically possible that more women than men are in relationships with the same sex, but all the data I can find shows that homosexuality is more prevalent among males.


Because:

Image

Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtship

Quote:
From the scientific point of view, courtship in the animal kingdom is the process in which the different species select their partners for reproduction purposes. Generally speaking, the male initiates the courtship and the female chooses to either mate or reject the male based on his "performance".



Btw, do you know why your human penis is boneless?



Hopper
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,920
Location: The outskirts

15 Apr 2014, 4:45 am

tarantella64 wrote:
They don't, but there's a male propensity generally to notice one's putting in effort at all and then turn into a massive drama queen about how one's putting in ALL the effort. It's almost never true. See recent studies of housework and parenting.


Eureka13 wrote:
I think it's possible that women put in just as much effort, only it manifests differently. They do the "come and get me" thing; men do the "go out and get them" thing.

However, with social impairment, ASD men are poorly equipped to recognize the "come and get me" signals. Likewise, ASD women are poorly equipped to give the appropriate signals.


LoveForLoki wrote:
Women put in just as much effort if not more, just in different ways.

Grooming: hairstyles, perfumes, make up, beauty treatments, shaving, plucking, waxing, clothing, high heels, tanning or fake tan (some) etc...

Body: Breast implants (some), face lifts (some), diets, padded bras, workouts, yoga, etc...

Personality: acting more "sexy" to get a man to notice her which is not really how she may be in real life with friends and family, this is especially hard if you are not a typical girly girl and quite an introvert.

For example: When I was growing up I never could attract a guy because I had no idea how to act like a cute and flirty girl, I hated the cheerleader types in my school and those were the type of girls ALL the guys wanted. I was not interested in being seen as a sexual object or striving to look like a barbie doll so I did not achieve girlfriend status with anyone.

It is not as easy as men like to think it is, if you do not work your but off to keep a man interested in you there is always the chance they will move on to something better (sexier) if the opportunity rears itself. Unless you find a truly genuine man who loves you regardless of your faults, the true you, the at home with messy hair baggy pajamas you, the caught the flu and got puke in your hair you and finding that guy is extremely hard.



So, obviously males don't put in all the effort. They put some in.

If what you're actually asking is why it seems men are expected to make the approach, I refer you to my earlier answer.

But for whatever reason, it's a social convention. Social conventions stay so because not enough people like upsetting them, and because society frowns upon people who do.


_________________
Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


AspieOtaku
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,051
Location: San Jose

15 Apr 2014, 4:47 am

Its expected of course that the male has to jump through hoops bend over backwards and do whatever it takes to impress a lady and ask her out only ending up with laughter and followed by a no!


_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList


LoveforLoki
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 2 Mar 2012
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 356
Location: Scandinavia

15 Apr 2014, 4:51 am

Also in society women have been taught from a very young age it is not lady like to openly pursue a man, it is our job to look and act sexy, to be attractive and the mans job to court us.

For example: the man asks the woman on a date, the man asks the woman to dance, the man asks the woman to marry him, etc...

Some more modern women will go after they guy she is attracted to if they were raised to be more aggressive but many women were taught not to do that.


_________________
I am an artist! Here is an example of some of my art:
http://instagram.com/Darby_Lahger


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,051
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

15 Apr 2014, 4:56 am

Quote:
I have learned in life that men, more than women have a hard time to control their sexual attraction to other women, hence why they have a higher cheating spousal rate and why the porn industry is huge, and 99% of strip clubs are for men.


Quote:
hence why they have a higher cheating spousal rate


Most studies show that cheating rate is almost equal between genders.

Quote:
why the porn industry is huge, and 99% of strip clubs are for men


That's because women have an easier access to sex in case of urges, one ad and voilà.

Women also watch erotica/porn more than you think, check the numbers.



LoveforLoki
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 2 Mar 2012
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 356
Location: Scandinavia

15 Apr 2014, 5:01 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

That's because women have an easier access to sex in case of urges, one ad and voilà.


No it is because women do not have the same high sexual drive as men and because women are physically aroused and men are visually aroused.

Women can go very long without even thinking about sex where as men think about it a number of times a day.

I am not saying women do not watch it, I am saying it is mostly men who do.

Also not all women have "easy access to sex" it is not as easy as men think especially if you are not attractive in societies standards.


_________________
I am an artist! Here is an example of some of my art:
http://instagram.com/Darby_Lahger


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,051
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

15 Apr 2014, 5:11 am

LoveforLoki wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

That's because women have an easier access to sex in case of urges, one ad and voilà.


No it is because women do not have the same high sexual drive as men and because women are physically aroused and men are visually aroused.

Women can go very long without even thinking about sex where as men think about it a number of times a day.



Culture makes it appear than males have it higher; women get way more influenced by religion and social rules (which is ironic because most religions are against them), hence why there are more male atheists than females.

Men and women are equally visual.



Hopper
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,920
Location: The outskirts

15 Apr 2014, 5:18 am

LoveforLoki wrote:
Also in society women have been taught from a very young age it is not lady like to openly pursue a man, it is our job to look and act sexy, to be attractive and the mans job to court us.

For example: the man asks the woman on a date, the man asks the woman to dance, the man asks the woman to marry him, etc...

Some more modern women will go after they guy she is attracted to if they were raised to be more aggressive but many women were taught not to do that.


Exactly.


_________________
Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


LoveforLoki
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 2 Mar 2012
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 356
Location: Scandinavia

15 Apr 2014, 5:40 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
LoveforLoki wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

That's because women have an easier access to sex in case of urges, one ad and voilà.


No it is because women do not have the same high sexual drive as men and because women are physically aroused and men are visually aroused.

Women can go very long without even thinking about sex where as men think about it a number of times a day.



Culture makes it appear than males have it higher; women get way more influenced by religion and social rules (which is ironic because most religions are against them), hence why there are more male atheists than females.

Men and women are equally visual.


My husband and I both disagree, we are discussing it now, we come to the same conclusion I have posted before, he thinks about sex a few times a day and I maybe once or twice a week.

I am a woman and I am not visual at all, I could stare all day at an attractive man and not be the least bit aroused and I know this is common because my lady friends and I talk about it. I am not saying it's impossible for many woman to be visually aroused but it takes me a lot of physical stimulation to become aroused.


_________________
I am an artist! Here is an example of some of my art:
http://instagram.com/Darby_Lahger


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,051
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

15 Apr 2014, 5:51 am

LoveforLoki wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
LoveforLoki wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

That's because women have an easier access to sex in case of urges, one ad and voilà.


No it is because women do not have the same high sexual drive as men and because women are physically aroused and men are visually aroused.

Women can go very long without even thinking about sex where as men think about it a number of times a day.



Culture makes it appear than males have it higher; women get way more influenced by religion and social rules (which is ironic because most religions are against them), hence why there are more male atheists than females.

Men and women are equally visual.


My husband and I both disagree, we are discussing it now, we come to the same conclusion I have posted before, he thinks about sex a few times a day and I maybe once or twice a week.

I am a woman and I am not visual at all, I could stare all day at an attractive man and not be the least bit aroused and I know this is common because my lady friends and I talk about it. I am not saying it's impossible for many woman to be visually aroused but it takes me a lot of physical stimulation to become aroused.


Your turn-ons are more complicated but you are not less visual.

Quote:
3. Women's sexual turn-ons are more complicated than men's.

What turns women on? Not even women always seem to know. Northwestern University researcher Meredith Chivers and colleagues showed erotic films to gay and straight men and women. They asked them about their level of sexual arousal, and also measured their actual level of arousal through devices attached to their genitals.

For men, the results were predictable: Straight men said they were more turned on by depictions of male-female sex and female-female sex, and the measuring devices backed up their claims. Gay men said they were turned on by male-male sex, and again the devices backed them up. For women, the results were more surprising. Straight women, for example, said they were more turned on by male-female sex. But genitally they showed about the same reaction to male-female, male-male, and female-female sex.

"Men are very rigid and specific about who they become aroused by, who they want to have sex with, who they fall in love with," says J. Michael Bailey. He is a Northwestern University sex researcher and co-author with Chivers on the study.

By contrast, women may be more open to same-sex relationships thanks to their less-directed sex drives, Bailey says. "Women probably have the capacity to become sexually interested in and fall in love with their own sex more than men do," Bailey says. "They won't necessarily do it, but they have the capacity."

Bailey's idea is backed up by studies showing that homosexuality is a more fluid state among women than men. In another broad review of studies, Baumeister found many more lesbians reported recent sex with men, when compared to gay men's reports of sex with women. Women were also more likely than men to call themselves bisexual, and to report their sexual orientation as a matter of choice.


http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-d ... are?page=2



LoveforLoki
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

Joined: 2 Mar 2012
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Posts: 356
Location: Scandinavia

15 Apr 2014, 6:00 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Your turn-ons are more complicated but you are not less visual.



Excuse me but you cannot tell me what I am feeling or what my turn-ons are, it is not your place and you are not inside my head. Just because you generalize women with your opinions and a few webMD articles on some sexuality studies doesn't make it factual and especially my fact.

If I say I am not at all visual then I am not at all visual.


_________________
I am an artist! Here is an example of some of my art:
http://instagram.com/Darby_Lahger


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,051
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

15 Apr 2014, 6:02 am

LoveforLoki wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Your turn-ons are more complicated but you are not less visual.



Excuse me but you cannot tell me what I am feeling or what my turn-ons are, it is not your place and you are not inside my head. Just because you generalize women with your opinions and a few webMD studies doesn't make it factual and especially my fact.

If I say I am not at all visual then I am not at all visual.


Fine, I meant women in general, by 'your' meant 'people of your gender' in this context.

Chill.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 15 Apr 2014, 6:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,051
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

15 Apr 2014, 6:05 am

Quote:
Excuse me but you cannot tell me what I am feeling or what my turn-ons are, it is not your place and you are not inside my head. Just because you generalize women with your opinions and a few webMD articles on some sexuality studies doesn't make it factual and especially my fact.

If I say I am not at all visual then I am not at all visual.



And oh btw, excuse me, just because your husband thinks of sex every day that doesn't mean all men do so and doesn't reflect what I think and what my daily thoughts are.

Talking about generalizing a gender, you were doing it too.



Hopper
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,920
Location: The outskirts

15 Apr 2014, 6:22 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
Excuse me but you cannot tell me what I am feeling or what my turn-ons are, it is not your place and you are not inside my head. Just because you generalize women with your opinions and a few webMD articles on some sexuality studies doesn't make it factual and especially my fact.

If I say I am not at all visual then I am not at all visual.



And oh btw, excuse me, just because your husband thinks of sex every day that doesn't mean all men do so and doesn't reflect what I think and what my daily thoughts are.

Talking about generalizing a gender, you were doing it too.


Can you imagine the Love and Dating section where people didn't make sweeping gender generalisations, and project their personal experience or observation into something universal?

Honestly, it'd be like a world without lawyers.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqk-CLxrW6s[/youtube]


_________________
Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.