The Cure for Nice Guy Syndrome

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OH please, stop the martyrdom.

You're the one obsessed with power as 'the most fundamental possession'. Stop projecting.

I've just popped out for shopping. I live in a fairly small town - about 4,000 people. It's as economically and socially a powerless place as there is, with a population to match - where the ragged people go. There are long term couples a-plenty. Living their lives, sticking it out, looking out for one another, raising families, being, basically, good people. They are concerned with power, but at a political level, not an interpersonal one. They are concerned with hospital closures, school standards, wages frozen year-on-year etc. They worry about how they're going to pay the heating bill, or get a new uniform for their kids. The women are not ever scouting the horizon for some Rolex-flashing gym-freak to whisk them away, nor are the men ever looking to immiserate one another in the hope of getting into the knickers of some nubile late teen.

I'm sure it soothes you to tell yourself this fantasy, to be the 'pure' one, to be 'above'.

Hopefully, in time, you will actually grow up.

Yes, maybe this is what I am saying. It is called self-control, self-denial and self-restraint.

How has this sexual liberation been good for us? We have more STDs than ever and newer types than in the 60s. There is so much confusion as to how we're supposed to court each other especially when each of us are dealing with the opposite gender. We have a society that sees sex as nothing but a mechanical thing to just get off. We live in what is called a sensate culture which is described by
Pitirim Sorokin and to me it is to sensate. Deep and Profound Feeling and Thinking is missing from this culture.

We have people who feel like s**t because they have sex to late or they do not have as many sexual partners or they can't get sex at all. There beliefs and values are all screwed up all because of a society that promotes it in our media and our entertainment. Sex is reduced to just a sensate experience and to a commodity and women especially are objectified in this whole madness.

http://satyagraha.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... modernity/

You want to cure the nice guy syndrome. You have to strike the problem at the root which is a sexually promiscuous culture that has a heart of stone and those who can't play in it or don't want to play in it are made to feel like s**t. Nice Guy Syndrome is a symptom of our prevailing culture. It is the over-sexed culture which is really based in a hustling based culture that is the problem. When one removes the spiritual from the physical and the intellectual this is what we have.

The human mind does not typically have the capacity to comprehend that....so no we do not truthfully have a full understanding of existence itself.

Still not sure entirely what you are referring to with nice guy syndrome....but how is no sex for anyone till marrige a solution to people feeling bad that they haven't had sex yet? Perhaps the change needs to be more like society not viewing 'sex' as a status thing or something all adults and teens must have already done or else they are a 'virgin' as if there is something wrong with having not had sex yet. So there should be less pressure to have sex in society, but nothing wrong with people having sex before marrige.

They do not have to wait or anything or do anything they do not want to do. I'm just providing a solution to the Nice Guy Syndrome. By waiting until they are married than no sex will be expected by the guy. Yes, I am talking 'as*hole who tries to be nice to get in girls pants syndrome. To solve this problem, remove sex out of the equation until marriage and focus on other things like reading, going to the beach, reading poetry, career development, developing critical thinking skills, and altogether just living and enjoying one's life the fullest if one can do these things of course.

By doing this one can save himself and the other person confusion, heartache, nonsense and other assorted crap. If a guy and a gal get into a relationship why can't they save themselves until marriage, be open and honest with each other, get to know each other on a spiritual, emotional and profound level first.

This is why I'm professing no sex until marriage as a solution so we can get rid of sex as a status thing. Things are more clear cut this way and by having no sex until marriage then one will not have any of these expectations that can become detrimental to oneself and to the other person. Did nice guy syndrome occur during the Victorian Period when people were not as sexually liberated?

Honestly, I'm sick of women and men being degraded by this BS over-sexed culture. Women are seen as nothing but sex objects in this sick and f****d up society.

Look at what Tarentella says right here. She is so right about a number of things.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp6051317.html#6051317

The PUA industry is a syndrome of an over-sexed culture that sees sex as a status symbol instead of something that is supposed to be magical and wonderful.

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 12 May 2014, 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

In those social matters a good guy is concerned with justice, which is the perspective that his goodness gives him -- he's not possesed by power, which is how politics had become so partisan (politicians are scummy because of how much reverance they have for power) but the average good guy knows that he must be good first, becuse that is what justice is about, the power comes secondary.

Good people are good first, powerful second, but in this world it's the complete opposite, to be loved here you need to be powerful first, good second (or not at all). Notorious 'bad people' have plenty of admirers, those admirers admire the notoriety, which was obtained through some act of power.

But a good guy doesn't respect power at the foremost -- which is what's important to him. In his time, he might come to posses power but that's only after some time has passed to give context to it...and for some it might never come because there was never any mind given to it... Good guys finish last because the context takes a long time to form (which prevents them from being touched by its corruption). A young male that ABSOLUTELY MUST GET LAID is going to be touched by this corruption much more than the guy whose not defined by sex, and conveniently enough, it's the later that doesn't get much access to sex, and what does he care? He needs to remember that it doesn't define him, and that is the precise reason why he doesn't get sex, he's not a mere animal merely concerned with being powerful enough to get sex -- his aim is beyond that.

But that is just way this world works, if you remove power you remove love, for the nice guy however, he knows that power doesn't equal love. Which is why he can't change, this world is tailored made for the complete opposite where the strong survives for the sake of being strong, but a nice guy isn't defined by power because goodness was never about that.

But that's why in the grand-scheme of things, it's so much better to be an obscure nice guy, than the opposite, there are plenty of nice guys with power, but that power came with context, and then there are other nice guys who are contending with its corruptible qualities, these ones fall into partisan-politics and other displays of ego, something that humans are damned good at.

"What does it profit a man to gain the world but lose his soul?" -- That is what the nice guy needs to remember, and why most people should understand there are much better things than winning in this world, and much worse things than losing.

tarantella64 has already outlined my understanding of the Nice Guy. That is, he's not usually all that nice, and the most charitable one can say about him is that he's confused. For starters, I think the quality of niceness should be conferred upon one by others, not something you decide upon yourself.

That great Yiddish word mensch is worth invoking here. More mensches, male and female. No more Nice Guys.

As to the rest, transcendence and such, that sort of stuff doesn't peel my banana. If you're talking as metaphor, sure - we can talk about the sublime, or Lewis's 'Joy'. Fascinating subject. But literally? Nope. I think it is a process that, to be true to itself, can never succeed. It is transcending where one can never have transcended.

I think China Mieville makes some sense of it here (skip to about 6.30 in):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IQVQtYSdtA[/youtube]

But are such people craving sex really going to actually remove sex from the equation and focus on other things? or be distracted by not getting any? I think either such males should be open that they just want sex with someone but no commitment then if a female is into that and they decide to do that great. Or this could be controversial but if prostitution was legal....it would be more regulated thus safer for those invovled and well if someone needs to get laid that badly they have a perfectly legal non manipulative option go pay someone.

Also what if this guy and gal belive that having sex is an important part of getting to know each other on a spiritual, emotional and profound level and not something that would come after?

Also I am sure in the victorian period it wasn't so much nice guy as tyranntical husband who emotionally oppresses/abuses their wife(not that this was all victorian couples but given the time period when abuse did go on it was sort of kept in the dark people still had to keep up proper apperances). But at least they got married first...

That is a good question. What you're asking is, is it cultural or biology? Good question indeed.



I didn't think of this aspect.

The thing is though, I'm just simply disturbed by this whole cultural including this whole nice guy syndrome stuff. I wish there was an answer I can give. Maybe what I say is one possible answer.

I just don't want people to get hurt by all of this.

I never said I approved of all aspects of the Victorian Period. The problem is we're the complete opposite of this period and we're just as screwed up but in a different way. It does seem like the pendulum does not seem to sit in the middle. It has to go to opposite extremes.

Yep. As long as men have been able to make a martyrdom out of their lack of luck with the ladies, or finding the day-to-day world all too much, there have been Nice Guys.

You've got the 18th century fad of sensibility, the Romantics, the aesthetes. I see a certain lineage.

Maybe in certain ways I do my friend. But what did you mean you saw a certain lineage? I didn't get this aspect.

Any way we could start calling these sorts of males what they are...instead of 'nice guys' still think its very unfair to guys who actually are nice in the sense of treating people with respect and being respectful of females rather then just wanting to screw them. We should call them manipultive guys, jerks, as*holes, users ect....but why the term nice guy to describe guys who aren't even nice and have no respect for people?

What I see is a common thread of a certain personality - one that makes a show of, and takes pride in, its 'suffering', and cocks a snook at the 'hoi poloi' and their materialistic, power-hungry, bodily-bound ways.

The difference is many of these movements produced great works of art or thought. The Nice Guys that presently abound bring us anti-feminist memes and a peculiar fixation on 'debunking' rape statistics.

Yeats:

HAD I the heavens? embroidered cloths,
Enwrought with golden and silver light,
The blue and the dim and the dark cloths
Of night and light and the half light,
I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.

I always thought there was something passive-aggressive about this poem. I've just now thought it's something a particularly wordy Nice Guy might come up with, following up with the declaration that the girl who rejected him despite such poetic efforts was a slut.