Should I just disappear?

Post Reply New Topic

Well, so you were thinking but had a synapsis misfire. Happens to us all the time! If anyone could understand it, an Aspie could.


You are definitely interested, I say go for it. There is one note of caution I will give you though and as an INTJ you will relate because we are also this way. When you say, "I'd love to get to know her more but can't in the present status quo."
Just a word of caution here, we are VERY serious people. Try to picture INTJ to enth degree. We have experiences, but we also have some wiring issues. A trait of AS can be someone who gets serious too fast. See what I posted for you from Dr. Brasic. Just understand that being a serious person to her is not what it is to you. So be extremely blunt about what you are doing and what you expect. Normal dating rules have to be tossed out the window with this one. (It's just like being CEO and courting a client from Japan!)


This is literally how it is for us: I believe Mordy said this in another post: "When I meet someone and establish some kind of connection with them, it never diminishes in me like it does in other people. I have what might be called an "assumed rapport", even if I have not seen that person in months or a year. When I was young I assumed other people were just extended family members and tried to approach them in that way... after many years I've come to realize that some AS traits are positive but not in a world which is demographically challenged like the one we live in. A world of people that are very different and are always on the defensive mentally and emotionally, a result of their evolutionary programming or what might be termed "their nature". "


In other words, we get inordinately attached very quickly and that is something you are not going to be used to from your dating experiences if they've been with so-called normal girls. (What are those? Doesn't really matter.) We would like not to be that way, but we're kind of limited by our wiring. So, just be aware of it and be cautious in how you proceed. Remember what I told you, she knows that you can go on, but she feels she cannot. That's probably already there and why she's so overreactive. It also makes me think you might have said something of that effect or in a similar vein on that date. If you did, that is sending up red flags all over the place.


You might want to get out your humor to help you bring that out on the table. That would be verboten in a regular dating situation but those rules don't apply here. The faster you get it out there and talk it through (by the way, we're pretty much Scientists too at heart so you'll be ok if you stick to your INTJ LOL), the better off you two will be. Even if all you ever become is friends, it still needs to be discussed. She needs to talk to someone, you have an interest in the outcome, so why not be the one who brings it out and helps her deal with it.


On a good note, I find us Aspie women to be exceedingly loyal once we're with someone. It really is a case of they're it for us. We also get over the other stuff in time. Just keep repeating after me, She did not scream like the girl in Halloween. This is a good sign. It will also add some levity when you need it.



And your E has to have a pretty good score. I'm 100 I and 0 E. Ummm, I'd rather stick bamboo shoots under my toenails than be the president of a business. I'm thinking you're a little more balanced there, Chip. Maybe those experiences added some numbers to the E side.

Chipmcc1, I can only offer my best guess as to what may be happening in your situation. It's possible that this woman is not accustomed to having a man show as much sincere interest in her and acceptance of her as what you display. If that's the case and you use possessive terminology such as, "my" favorite Aspie, that's likely to increase her level of discomfort. In her mind, that would be a mixed message if her past history isn't good (which most likely isn't good given that she is looking for a companion).

If she is a high-level Aspie, then she probably is not at all used to having someone really wanting to know "her." She desperately would want to be known, but at the same time, this terrifies her. That would explain the mixed message you seem to be getting. She might even try to sabotage this potentially successful relationship before it can have a chance to take root.

My suggestion would be to use what you can to your advantage. She has a sense of humor, so look for ways to lighten things up using that approach indirectly. If she won't read your emails, then you're going to have to wait for her to reach out to you. Don't give up too quickly though, because she isn't going to find too many people who will put up with (much less listen to) a person who is sad. That too is an advantage you have.

Also, keep in mind that the more attractive an Aspie woman is, the greater the chances are that she has suffered through painful experiences because of it.

I wonder what she would think if she visited WrongPlanet.net and saw your picture and posts here?

This is a misinformed idea. Many with severe clinical depression function in other ways, usually work. They are able to compartmentalise things like work which are non emotional. I'm not sure why, or how it works. But many do. Aside from famous examples such as Mike Wallace and Dick Cavett (you can google their stories if you wish), I am very close to someone who does just that. Work can be a lifeline for some. But they shut down at home and/or around loved ones.



She sounds like she has many good qualities. I feel for you. You alone can decide whether it's worth it to keep hanging in for someone who may or may not ever be able to reciprocate. A shrink might say you were hesitant about intimacy yourself, that's what they usually say about people who choose people who are not available to them.

ZanneMarie, thanks for the excerpts, I will read them soon as I can. Right now I'm gonna try and sleep. Nite everyone!

"It's your F talking" - funny!

Chipmcc1, you said you're 40 years old. Have you ever been married or engaged?

No, haven't been married but I can see myself happily married in the not too distant future. I was engaged back when I was 27 no date was set though. How does this play a role here?

Maybe Faith thinks that puts you and your girl on more of an even playing field with relationships.

So, what's happening now? The writer in me wants to know. Otherwise, I will turn you both into charactes and produce outcomes for you. The judger in me cannot allow this open-ended scenario.

Well not that much is happening. This past Thursday she relpllied to my 5 or so waiting emails in one fell swoop. Mostly one liners as if all was ok. In one I tell her to cheer up and tell me whats wrong. The reply was, 'what goes around comes around ...nevermind', and that bothered me. I'm trying to help. Next I said, 'don't be that way tell me whats wrong'. She said that I didn't touch her on our first date and that I didn't find her attractive, which I refuted in the most recent mail, saying that I did which is why I wanted to hug and that first dates were for getting familiar with one and other. Called her Sat afternoon to get together but she got called into work. I said np call me when you get home. She didn't call, doubt I'll hear anything new till Wednesday. I think she's great but that doesn't mean she going to give it a chance.

Hmmm. Did you come out and ask her yet? She's definitely got hurt feelings going on. It sounds like she doesn't feel she is attractive so looks for things to confirm that. As soon as she gets any "indication" she is out of there. Maybe she was seriously burned before (told she was ugly, fat, etc.). You know how some guys can be during a break up. If she's over sensitive, those things can stay with her.

You can only do what you can do. If you think she's really an Aspie and this is building a wall in your communication, I'd ask straight out. But then, that's me and I am rather blunt. LOL


How was her communication around you? Did she seem to be able to read eyes, facial expressions and body language? Does she just "not get" some things? Was there any of that making you think she was AS?

This is after our first date looking back but yeah, I mean there is so much that indicates. Like the way she talks, very feminine and soft and words tumble out in bundles amongst short pauses. Preoccupation with the vibrating oven exaust vent. Lanky walking that is very cute. When I first saw her she walked towards me but deviated and hit the wall which provided support, then I shook her hand and held her shoulders and looked at her. I looked at her family picts she had, then asked for the remote to turn on Animal Planet. They were showing their 'Puppy Bowl', I guess cuz they can't get many viewers during the game. After a little bit she said, ' I don't get it'. I was like lol, it's just eye candy...puppies.. She looked at me and when I looked at her eyes she would look away, several times. The thing when I asked about having a family and she said yes with 'the right support' is a big one. I can't recall it all on the spot but it's everything like that.

Chipmcc1, knowing whether or not you've ever been married or engaged isn't a lot of helpful information by itself. Your age group (30's to 40) probably isn't affected the same way as mine (50's). The ratio of men to women must be more balanced since the Vietnam War era ended before guys your age would get drafted. For me, in my area, there are many more women than men. That means most women are single while most men are married.

Anyhow, I'm going to take a big shot in the dark by saying what I'm about to say, so please realize it's basically guessing. I think you seem to be the type of guy for a woman to approach fairly easily. The impression I'm getting is that you're also the type of guy who appears to be at the high-end of assertiveness (especially from the perspective of a potentially Aspergian woman). People with Asperger's Syndrome tend to be filled with self-doubt and low confidence, especially by the time they reach their 30's. The only constructive social practice an Aspie might have for confidence building in a NT world is good support from a loving family (and maybe a friend or two?).

When a take-charge kind of guy walks into a Aspie woman's life, it can create discomfort. If she is interpretting your lack of romantic passion on a first date as you not finding her attractive, then obviously her sense of self-esteem got distorted by somebody. (By the way, it might help to inject here that I had a large variety of dating experiences before I committed myself to one person). I can understand why she might think she isn't attractive if she's used to men taking greater liberties on first dates, but that wouldn't be a reason for her to behave as you describe.

Her remark, "what goes around, comes around...nevermind," to you should bother you. That isn't going to be what a person would enjoy saying to someone she likes. It's almost as if she's trying to manipulate you into feeling bad. By any chance, have you grown up with that feeling...needing to convince others you are worthy? If you repeatedly find yourself attracted to emotionally unavailable women, then I'd say it's time to pay more attention to learning more about yourself than other people. It probably doesn't feel good to reconsider what you're up to with this woman you are attracted to, but in the long run it might be what's best.

Yes, those are all big clues. The "I don't get it" is huge, especially for something like that. That is exactly something we wouldn't get. Also, turning and walking into a wall. I do that, especially if I'm getting overwhelmed by things I don't understand. You were probably in big time non-verbal mode, which would be normal for you if you felt attraction, and as a result, she would be in big time confusion trying to figure out what all that meant. And then you took her shoulders and stared at her. Oh boy. Well, she didn't scream or cry, so that's good. But, it probably made her really uncomfortable. Usually what happens is that we are so worried about looking strange or abnormal that we start looking away because we know that normal people don't scream and go to their room. LOL So, we're trying to be "normal" and still come off strange, but in a confusing way.

There are also things you don't know about us and maybe don't understand from what Filly is saying, so I'll explain them to you as best I can. Asking for the remote probably caused her instant and acute anxiety. We're very particular about our things, where they are and will they work the same the next time. It's like a comfort thing somewhat, but it's also the startle thing. Normally the people you know wouldn't think twice about that or respond to that, but to us that is very surprising and makes us very uncomfortable. As filly said, we find it very assertive. Like, "My! Isnt' he assertive just asking for my remote like that. What if he starts reprogramming my TV with it or puts it back someplace else and I can't find it?" It's just our brain going haywire, but we don't really see the world the way you do and so we read all kinds of things into actions that you don't mean and don't even see. Does that make sense?

Looking at the family might have been another one. It probably made her want to hide. It's like you trying to see inside her. It's extremely assertive to us, but just normal behavior to anyone else. So, it makes her perspective skewed to yours and causes a breakdown in the communication.


That line about what comes around goes around is disturbing, but in the sense that something is going on there. There's some big clue in that statement that is just out of reach. I think it holds the key to what's really going on. That and the touching comment.


Well, you can only do what you can. I can't advise you there because I am far too blunt and I'd be just as likely to confront her on it as not because that's the way I am. That probably wouldn't work out too well with an Aspie. I know when I do that with my best friend who I am sure is also Aspie, we have these seemingly explosive verbal fights that would make any regular person think we would never speak again. But, after all our upset has gone, we're right back to the way we were. They can be over some really silly things like who is driving to the badlands of South Dakota. LOL Just silly stuff when I look back at it, but it sets off some big arguments. We also make statements like that. I call them proclamations. We get into this mode where we start making proclamations to each other and all real communication ceases until that is over.

Thanks Faithfilly and Zanne. That really helps, well helps me in understanding more. I am easily approachable and could understand why some could find me assertive. I can also see why there could be an issue with self esteem, though my first reaction to the '...nevermind' statement was that she wanted physical contact on the first date and that was an Aspie trait. Pretty sure I read that in one of the books I read. My second thought was that she decided not to deal with it anymore and was going to sabotage it. I just hope it's not self esteem, thats tough to correct.

No, in general I don't feel the need to convince others I am worthy. I'm actually overly confident at times. I just have a weird personality. Thinking back, I can only think one other instance of being with someone that was emotionally unavailable. I was 17 and pretty clueless ...

Thanks again ladies, very helpful, lots of things here I hadn't thought of.

Actually Aspies can go both ways or any way in between. So one is asexual, one is overtly sexual and another is somewhere in between. That would be hard to say as a hard and fast Aspie trait. It goes all over the spectrum. If you have a tendency to be overly confident, it just depends on how she read that and where she's at in the spectrum. It also varies by the overload. The higher the overload, the more skewed her view and her responses.

I think the whole what goes around, comes around...nevermind thing is a clue she's reading something you are unaware of completely. Something went on that she is seeing one way and you another. It could be that she felt rejected as she said and she's just saying that at some point you will feel rejected too. We usually follow a routine though, so her thinking it should have gone a certain way says her routine has been set at some point in her life. Only she could tell you when or why. But something has given her this idea. Also, remember that we are literal. So if we get these ideas about things, we literally think it must always be this way or something is wrong. She was basically telling you that literally she felt this is the way a first date should go. She's formed that somewhere.

But, it all comes back to she has to communicate with you for you to know. If she's the one, it will work itself out. It always does. If not, it won't. Sometimes you just have to be able to let go and believe that. It might help you to relax until it plays itself out.

Chip,

Upon more thought, my statement, “By any chance, have you grown up with that feeling...needing to convince others you are worthy?” did need correction. An unconscious need to convince others you are worthy can only come from a person who doesn’t believe himself to be so and if you didn’t believe so of yourself, you would never have achieved all that you have (especially becoming a president of a corporation!). I offer my apologies on not taking time to think that one through.

That being said, here are some more perspective thoughts:

You’re in a dilemma. Because she can’t love herself, she can’t expect anyone else to either. If she’s not going to expect anyone to love her unconditionally, she’s not going to recognize love even if it hits her over the head. If she can’t receive love, then she’s never going to have any love to give.

The clues are there. It’s obvious to those of us not involved that the actions you are taking represent caring. To her, she is rejecting your displays of appreciation. Why? Someone who has a healthy love of self will recognize and embrace the familiar, but since she is not, what other reason explains her self-imposed trap that reflects mixed messages?

ZanneMarie,

I find reading what you write relaxing. It has me to feel less alone. You understand and expound upon my two-cents I often tend to too hastily throw in. I want to help others too, but I’m beginning to think that maybe my eyes of compassion got bigger than my stomach of time and I’ve piled too much on my plate of humanity and now that plate has cracked to pieces [please excuse what is most likely a hideous attempt at customizing a metaphor].

My strong desire to help others online stemmed from too many years of other people offline treating me as not having anything worthwhile (above the level of such things as scrubbing toilets) to add to this world. Other Aspies can relate to the joy of writing online---online, no one can interrupt us when we’re talking.

Doing what Aspies do best, I shall gladly speak with blunt honesty as to my latest battle: I’m losing what little feeling I’ve had of worthiness in the last remote corner of my life [i.e., the internet world].