Lets pick appart the ever dreamy edward cullen

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The feminist analysis you read probably overlapped a lot with this one:

http://www.teenink.com/opinion/pop_cult ... -Feminism/

As you noted, Edward really is abusively controlling. This feminist author notes the same thing.



The werewolf is a less problematic boyfriend and she is attracted to him (he ticks some pretty powerful boxes by being handsome, strong and animalistic without being threatening). So why the vampire and not the werewolf. This critic has a theory:

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/critical-an ... ht-popular

this explains the attraction of the young female fan base:


the older female fan base is attracted to something a little different:


In both cases it's pure escapism. The vampire offers something no actual man could offer (eternal youth!! !) and a vacation from reality. In contrast, the werewolf offers something slightly more realistic (except for the "turns into a wolf" part) by being part animal (as humans are) and also with realistic human emotions that must be dealt with. He is more like an actual person and thus less of a vacation.

I watched the movies because I like supernatural showdowns (there is a good epic battle at the end of the very last one) but you are right that the vampire would be an abusive partner in reality.

I'd rather date Snape than a sparkly Vampire.I'm not going out with a man that's prettier than me.

Janissy, I don't think it's the eternal youth what made those females wet.

A pro-twilight anaysis (by a woman) went as far as paralleling it to rape fantasy!

I'll find the link for you.

I was never captivated by Edward in the books, I read it for the over all story and was particularly intrigued by the vampires' super powers and the early history of them and the werewolves. It really annoyed me that we didn't get to learn more about Alice Cullen!

My thoughts on Edward Cullen is that he isn't that great. He watched her sleep without her knowing, how creepy is that? That is so not romantic! That reminds me that in "Diary of a wimpy vampire" the vampire climbs a tree to watch his girlfriend sleep. He soon became bored! Those books are funny.

Back to Edward: I didn't find his declarations of love the least bit romantic; they were old-fashioned and ludicrous. No one talks like that.
I wasn't impressed by how he had to run away either. It just made me roll my eyes.
Bella's reaction to that may not have been impressing but I think it was somewhat realistic. I can easily imagine myself having that reaction at that age.
I hated how Edward would pick her up and try to make decisions on her behalf. He was a complete turn-off for me.

When I saw the actor they picked for his part, my thought was "but he's supposed to be really handsome!", but in the actual movie he made it work. He certainly had charms and was intriguing there.

I wouldn't call Edward a bad guy, nor nice guy. He's a mixed bag and that's okay, but I don't find his mix particularly alluring.

I much preferred Jacob. He was nicer and more interesting and sounded like a fun guy.


Harry Potter wasn't that kind of story or character at all.

That's the link:

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2009/11/2 ... -psssssst/

the author sounds sort of a ret*d tbh.



I don't get how the bold part isn't rape/assault.

What's creepy, that more women are agreeing with her in the comments below.

OMG! It is a feminist nightmare.

No wonder I liked the werewolf better. But...yuck!

I think some women do fantasise about that. I've heard pretty much so from women I've known. A fantasy is very, very different from an actuality. I don't think that can be emphasised enough. Even a fantasy of powerlessness, of one's will being overridden, is held safe in one's mind and at one's behest - ultimately, the fantasising person is in control. One of the most psychologically traumatic things that can happen is to have one's fantasy actually come to life.

Judging from the popularity of certain films, there's an audience of men who in some way are on board with the fantasy of something awful - kidnap, rape, murder - happening to their wife or daughter so that they can then go on a brutal revenge spree. To touch even more of a nerve, there was a certain fantasy - still is, perhaps - amongst the US filmwatching audience of great landmarks/population centres of the country being attacked so the cowboys can then come rolling in and 'kick ass'. Either of these actualities are not only traumatic, but all the more so for the fantasies they've previously taken form in.

I think it's fairly common for children to fantasise about being orphans. I don't think they'd be anything other than distraught, grieved and guilt-ridden if you killed their parents.

Fantasizing means thinking of something sexual you desire to do, when I fantasize about a sex act I think of something I really want to do.
So what else means when you fantasize of raping/getting raped if it doesn't reflect a desire?

I did hear it from few women too, always are those into bdsm and I personally find it sickening.

That's why when a guy here said he has rape fantasies (to rape) the first thing I told him is to seek therapy.

Here's my take on it: a fantasy, like much in life, is a codified way of expressing something. You would have to ask the person who fantasises about being raped what the fantasy does for them, why they fantasise so. You would have to place it in a nexus of contexts. It may be a safe way for them to fantasise about a certain powerlessness, or about being overwhelmingly desired by someone, or who knows what else. And again, fantasising about being raped is very, very different to actually being raped. You cannot actualise a fantasy of being raped. The key point here is the person is in control of their fantasy. They can role play rape in a consensual fashion to whatever degree of 'reality' gets them off. But all the while it will be under their control. They will willingly have their will overridden.

Rape, however, is about power. I cannot see what a fantasy about raping someone could otherwise be about, and my worry with such a thing would be that the fantasy then tips over into a reality, because it comes from a genuine desire for such power, and rape is the mode through which it has found its expression in the person's fantasy life.

Many people nowadays will fantasise about being famous. The actuality of being famous may turn out to be a living hell. Far better to ask of them why they want to be famous.

this is just wrong. i fantasise all the time about stuff i could/would never ever do in real life. that's the whole point of having an imagination, isn't it??

anyone who has been raped themselves or knows someone who has been raped and has seen what it can do to a person would never seriously wish for that to happen to them. the fantasies are always within the control of the woman having them--that is why they remain in the realm of fantasy. fantasising about what it might be like to have no control (if you don't really know what that experience would be like) and actually having someone rob you of your bodily integrity are two VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

just because some women might admit to fantasising about "rape" (i don't think of those fantasies as even portraying rape, because if the woman involved in the imaginary activity wants the sex to happen and consents to the activity then it's not rape) does not mean actual rape doesn't happen or it's not wrong. it does happen (to women who DON'T fantasise about it!) and it is most definitely wrong.

If you are given the chance to actually do the fantasy idea (in exactly the same setting and persons involved) when you are horny while fantasizing about it, wouldn't you want to do it?




starving, a rape fantasy means a rape fantasy, rape mean non-consent sex assault, it doesn't mean anything else.



Wait, who's hinting that rape isn't wrong here (it's wrong even if it happens to rape fantasizers)? Who said it doesn't happen? I don't understand why you're telling me this.



Read my post again, you really have a selective blindness:



So my view on rape is obvious above and so in many other posts/threads.

Seriously, stop doing this starvingartist, this is becoming ridiculous.

absolutely not.

You probably have a nasty fantasy then. Cannibalism? blood?

Anyway, why you've chosen to ignore the rest of my post?

You just accused and assumed me of being a rape-apologist, but when I proved to you that your assumption (based on a post I did before your post) is totally the opposite of the truth, you run away instead of admitting you thought wrong.

I read the books when my teen age daughter did. I thought girls/women reading it fell in love with the lead man as one is reading it from the lead females perspective and empathizing with her feelings of infatuation. I think readers are not 'over thinking' it and are just letting the story flow over them and if they think about it or pull it apart they see the flaws.

Also women are trained from young on this type of story such as beauty and the beast so the tale of 'a womans love healing an abusive man' is familiar and resonates with them.

you should also look up analysis of 50 shades and its abusive story as its fanfiction of twilight, ive not read it but info on that may have more answers for you.

From where I am, starvingartist didn't say much different than I did, and I don't think you thought I was accusing you of rape apologism.

I wasn't, by the way. What I was doing was talking about a subject in front of a membership who will likely be aware of arguments around 'legitimate rape' and 'rape rape', who will fairly regularly see attempts at 'debunking' rape statistics, and an awful lot of who think feminism has 'gone too far'. In this context, I think one has to be very careful and clear in what one is talking about.

Then we may have to consider that, definitionally, a rape fantasy where one is the victim is impossible. I'm quite fine with that.



A little advice: saying something like that to your interlocuter would be the likely explanation they decide to stop trying to talk to you.

For the record, I have a number of fairly benign fantasies I wouldn't want to actually happen.

You didn't, starvingartist did.




I was never one of those, I never justified rape in any form or shape, in fact I confronted those who did, but obviously starvingartists always assume the worst from males by default, she always had this tendency and she has a very selective view and memory on people.








Nah, she selectively quoted parts I said before I tell her that.

What she did is that selectively quoted a part, accusing me of being rape apologist, while the rest of my post that she chose to not quote, debunks her accusation/assumption.



I don't want to know them.