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The_Face_of_Boo
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14 May 2014, 11:23 am

cannotthinkoff wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
lol Where did he say that he's entitled to date someone better looking than her? The guy couldn't say a word.

I can see where this thread is going, now women here would side with the woman and say he's a horrible guy while men would side with the man and say she's being whiny.

well go see an episode, and then come back for a chat, ok

the thread was STARTED by a guy claiming that "hey what about the nice guy!"
im not siding with any of the sexes, im just pointing out NOT TO DO THAT! its not about that, its about people wanting more than they can get and loosing out on their chance on happiness because of that


Answer this: Did he say or show that he doesn't desire her because she's fat anywhere in the whole episode? I believe you can find that part if it exists.



spongy
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14 May 2014, 11:24 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
besides men usually discriminate on the basis of beauty, not women (they do it on other terms).


That's a myth, I saw so much discrimination from women on the basis of looks, height especially.

You yourself were calling this guy ugly and bald and therefore he MUST give a chance to this whiny woman - just because he's "ugly" and "fat".


Exactly the point of this thread.


Men complain about being rejected.

You hear cries of entitlement

Women complain about being rejected

He was shallow and he realized he made a mistake in the end.



Just so we are clear I have done the opposite thing on males double standards several times in the past and I was looking at feminist sites because I do agree with most of what they say.
On this issue however I need to bring up the double standard they are using.


Also I didnt take this out of context. This short clip is all the context I was given on every site reporting about this issue.

I will try to find the full video but I have to work with what I was given.



cannotthinkoff
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14 May 2014, 11:24 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
besides men usually discriminate on the basis of beauty, not women (they do it on other terms).


That's a myth, I saw so much discrimination from women on the basis of looks, height especially.

You yourself were calling this guy ugly and bald and therefore he MUST give a chance to this whiny woman - just because he's "ugly" and "fat".

I meant beauty as in you know, beauty, sure, looks and "manly qualities" are of course in the list.
She's now whiny or whatever, go watch the episode.... shes actually quite sweet and funny.
Sure, if he's ugly and fat, why shouldnt he lower his standards? hes alone and quite miserable. he might just find happiness that way. whats wrong with that.



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14 May 2014, 11:27 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Answer this: Did he say or show that he doesn't desire her because she's fat anywhere in the whole episode? I believe you can find that part if it exists.

Yes, it was heavily implied by the whole episode, and then it was stated in interviews with the actors. They weren't even on a date, he was just thanking her for a favor she did for him



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14 May 2014, 11:34 am

spongy wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
besides men usually discriminate on the basis of beauty, not women (they do it on other terms).


That's a myth, I saw so much discrimination from women on the basis of looks, height especially.

You yourself were calling this guy ugly and bald and therefore he MUST give a chance to this whiny woman - just because he's "ugly" and "fat".


Exactly the point of this thread.


Men complain about being rejected.

You hear cries of entitlement

Women complain about being rejected

He was shallow and he realized he made a mistake in the end.



Just so we are clear I have done the opposite thing on males double standards several times in the past and I was looking at feminist sites because I do agree with most of what they say.
On this issue however I need to bring up the double standard they are using.


Also I didnt take this out of context. This short clip is all the context I was given on every site reporting about this issue.

I will try to find the full video but I have to work with what I was given.

NOPE. You're a man, so from your perspective that's how it happens. From my perspective, it's the opposite. These "double standards" arise just from personal bitterness and inability to empathize with the opposite sex. No one pities the fat girl in that way, what everyone is REALLY thinking about is that she feels entitled, quoting "WHINING"; and the nice guy was SHAMED and forced to listen and pity her. No one is siding with her, not really. Maybe in the media because it's considered to be correct, but really? in the real life? No guy cares for her situation, and no girl! I have no idea how you guys came to those conclusions. Media is screwing with your minds much. I see no double standards, just THE OPPOSITE.

The sites assume you saw the episode, or saw the events correctly. Its easy to make up some stories from that video alone.



Hopper
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14 May 2014, 11:38 am

Wait, are we talking about nice guys - you know, men who are actually pleasant and upstanding and emotionally mature - or are we talking about Nice Guys?

I think the 'entitled' thing is very contextual. It's not just 'I got rejected', it's a whole host of social and personal and behavioural context, and their general demeanour.


_________________
Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


spongy
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14 May 2014, 11:38 am

cannotthinkoff wrote:
spongy wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
besides men usually discriminate on the basis of beauty, not women (they do it on other terms).


That's a myth, I saw so much discrimination from women on the basis of looks, height especially.

You yourself were calling this guy ugly and bald and therefore he MUST give a chance to this whiny woman - just because he's "ugly" and "fat".


Exactly the point of this thread.


Men complain about being rejected.

You hear cries of entitlement

Women complain about being rejected

He was shallow and he realized he made a mistake in the end.



Just so we are clear I have done the opposite thing on males double standards several times in the past and I was looking at feminist sites because I do agree with most of what they say.
On this issue however I need to bring up the double standard they are using.


Also I didnt take this out of context. This short clip is all the context I was given on every site reporting about this issue.

I will try to find the full video but I have to work with what I was given.

NOPE. You're a man, so from your perspective that's how it happens. From my perspective, it's the opposite. These "double standards" arise just from personal bitterness and inability to empathize with the opposite sex. No one pities the fat girl in that way, what everyone is REALLY thinking about is that she feels entitled, quoting "WHINING"; and the nice guy was SHAMED and forced to listen and pity her. No one is siding with her, not really. Maybe in the media because it's considered to be correct, but really? in the real life? No guy cares for her situation, and no girl! I have no idea how you guys came to those conclusions. Media is screwing with your minds much. I see no double standards, just THE OPPOSITE.

The sites assume you saw the episode, or saw the events correctly. Its easy to make up some stories from that video alone.


You just proved the point of this thread.

The media talks about entitlement when it involves a guy and it tries to make you simpathize with her when it is a girl.

You will see on my second post on this very thread that I find both situations to be very sad aspects of society and I wish that they were gone.

However as it is this is a discussion on how the media reacts a different way when the roles get changed



spongy
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14 May 2014, 11:39 am

Hopper wrote:
Wait, are we talking about nice guys - you know, men who are actually pleasant and upstanding and emotionally mature - or are we talking about Nice Guys?

I think the 'entitled' thing is very contextual. It's not just 'I got rejected', it's a whole host of social and personal and behavioural context, and their general demeanour.


Nice guys ^tm



The_Face_of_Boo
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14 May 2014, 11:42 am

cannotthinkoff wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
besides men usually discriminate on the basis of beauty, not women (they do it on other terms).


That's a myth, I saw so much discrimination from women on the basis of looks, height especially.

You yourself were calling this guy ugly and bald and therefore he MUST give a chance to this whiny woman - just because he's "ugly" and "fat".

I meant beauty as in you know, beauty, sure, looks and "manly qualities" are of course in the list.
She's now whiny or whatever, go watch the episode.... shes actually quite sweet and funny.
Sure, if he's ugly and fat, why shouldnt he lower his standards? hes alone and quite miserable. he might just find happiness that way. whats wrong with that.


You just called him NOT a nice guy, plus you called him fat, ugly, entitled and poor, and that he thinks she's not worth it.

So why should she lower her standards and date someone who's exploitative like this?



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14 May 2014, 11:48 am

spongy wrote:

You just proved the point of this thread.

The media talks about entitlement when it involves a guy and it tries to make you simpathize with her when it is a girl.

You will see on my second post on this very thread that I find both situations to be very sad aspects of society and I wish that they were gone.

However as it is this is a discussion on how the media reacts a different way when the roles get changed

Then you should clarify in your post that you are concerned about the media. This is a whole other story and has little to do with the real life or what public perceptions actually are. Also, media follows trends and fashions. Here's one for you - why is it ok in movies to show how a nerd or average guy always gets the best girl? And yet I am still to see a single movie when it's the other way round?



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14 May 2014, 11:50 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
So why should she lower her standards and date someone who's exploitative like this?

What is wrong with being an old fat bald guy who wants some love. He has a nice personality and other good attributes. Both of them have good qualities and not so good ones. The difference is that she can see past some of those in order to give it a chance for love.



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14 May 2014, 11:53 am

Comedians are pretty miserable people in general. It's more or less a requirement to be good at it. Hatred is the best catalyst for comedy there is, IMO.



spongy
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14 May 2014, 11:55 am

cannotthinkoff wrote:
spongy wrote:

You just proved the point of this thread.

The media talks about entitlement when it involves a guy and it tries to make you simpathize with her when it is a girl.

You will see on my second post on this very thread that I find both situations to be very sad aspects of society and I wish that they were gone.

However as it is this is a discussion on how the media reacts a different way when the roles get changed

Then you should clarify in your post that you are concerned about the media. This is a whole other story and has little to do with the real life or what public perceptions actually are. Also, media follows trends and fashions. Here's one for you - why is it ok in movies to show how a nerd or average guy always gets the best girl? And yet I am still to see a single movie when it's the other way round?


Several people have talked about how females are often seen as dispensable on films(Manic pixie dream girls, just a love interest for the protagonist...).

I have seen few people point out this double standard and I felt some members could benefit from it when it comes to one discussing one of this boards favourite topics(nice guys/what is wrong with them....).
I feel most of us find them too unrelatable, even when we share the same gender

If you wish to discuss how females are seen as disposable on films be my guest/create a new thread to discuss this topic



Yuzu
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14 May 2014, 12:00 pm

spongy wrote:
Men complain about being rejected.

You hear cries of entitlement

Women complain about being rejected

He was shallow and he realized he made a mistake in the end.


My reaction would be the same if a guy was making that speech: Lose weight. Do something about it.

If someone was rejected because of their physical appearances not being attractive, despite having a nice personality, my reaction to either gender still would be the same. I'd say "sorry you weren't his/her type." (or I should just keep my mouth shut because that might not be something they want to hear)

Comparing her to a Nice Guy is a little off because a Nice Guy is supposed to be a jerk who pretends to be nice to get laid. If a guy with a truly nice personality was rejected for being ugly, people would be more sympathetic.



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14 May 2014, 12:05 pm

spongy wrote:

I have seen few people point out this double standard and I felt some members could benefit from it when it comes to one discussing one of this boards favourite topics(nice guys/what is wrong with them....).
I feel most of us find them too unrelatable, even when we share the same gender

If you wish to discuss how females are seen as disposable on films be my guest/create a new thread to discuss this topic

What I wanted to say is that if you are looking at the media specifically, you have to say so. And then choose an appropriate clip to illustrate your point, and the double standard. In this case, this clip, in my opinion, is totally out of context. And besides, in the media everything works differently, and there aren't even any real female characters most of the time anyway.

I do not understand this double standard, I think it is made up largely by people who "cannot get laid" but "feel entitled to". So this clip actually negates your statement - lower your standards/better yourself and you might find love. Too bad most of the guys think of themselves as "nice guys". And again, there is certainly no thing that "nice girl" is more supported when she is rejected, and the guy is always the one who is an ass. Besides, the cultural phenomena of men doing the asking out is of another matter and has good reasons behind it. Besides females who ask other men out are more than often shamed and looked down on. Dealing with rejection is hard for everyone, no need to whine about it and look for "double standards" where there are none.

You can clarify and try to define what is it exactly that you are trying to talk about, what is this double standard and try to find some accurate illustrations in the media, and then see how that actually translates to the real world.

My belief that if we are honest, 90% of the time it's just simple whining for not being able to get laid or aiming too high.



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14 May 2014, 12:09 pm

Also, in the media, you always see how nice guys - the smart ones, the soulful ones, the artists and creators, or simply kind-hearted folks are rejected by cold beautiful princesses/ high school queens, pretty neighbors, whatever. And the whole movie is centered around that guy, and you feel really bad for him. Because he's a decent guy, but maybe not rich, manly or beautiful, tall and muscular. So, there you go, your double standard is pretty crap.